Takeover Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney: Hello, and welcome to another amazing fun episode from the talent takeover

Taylor Bradley: Unfiltered.

Brianna Rooney: So we are gonna get a little intense today. We're gonna talk about the toxic clients and when to walk away from bad business. Ooh, Ooh.

Taylor Bradley: Don't worry. We won't call out any names.

Brianna Rooney: Um,

Taylor Bradley: Yeah, guys, don't forget to stay listening so that you can make sure that you hear our broke to boss tip of the week. It's gonna be a good one. They always are, but you know, this one will be a good one too.

Brianna Rooney: Well, you always nail those.

Speaker 3: Welcome to talent takeover

Taylor Bradley: Unfiltered.

Speaker 3: When it comes to working hard and keeping it real, we know our, self care, happiness, inner peace and time. I'm Brianna Rooney. And this is Taylor Bradley. Hey y'all. And we have thrived in chaos and turned it into in art form. So, Taylor, what are we doing here today?

Taylor Bradley: We're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to a long underrated industry. That's full of experts.

Speaker 3: All right. Well then let's take this show to the

Brianna Rooney: Road. All right. So let's get into it because I, I don't know. I know we only have like 15, 20 minutes. Cause I feel like I've got tons of bad clients to talk about it. but uh, I guess let, let let's, uh, instead of starting with the vent, I mean, what, what, what's the typical thing, like when do we really wanna walk away? Because it's like, we could say, oh, well it's money, right? Like we're still, we're still money. We still have business, but what can, I guess let's start? What can a toxic client do?

Taylor Bradley: Absolutely up your mental health. First of all. Mm-hmm um, but no, I mean, I would say that that's, you know, you and I specifically Brianna, we are people that it's like, oh man, it's like taking a, a punch the gut to walk away from business because we're competitive. We wanna see it through. It's like, yes, I can change their mind. Yes. I can overcome this obstacle. I can make this happen. But at the end of the day, I mean, we've all had clients that are just like, there's no, there's just no way. They'll be lucky if they hire someone in six years, you know? Yeah. So when we talk about kind of the characteristics of what, uh, you know, walking away from bad business, I know in recruiter world, all of us, especially the agency recruiters I know are like, because that, I mean, it's a big deal.

Taylor Bradley: You're walking away from potentially sometimes a good chunk of change. So, um, I think for us though, at talent perch, I know one of our big things when we would walk away is if they do not prioritize the candidate experience and you know, everything that goes into that sticking to a streamlined, efficient interview process, being mindful of communication and timely feedback. Um, you know, when they just think that it's 10 years ago and there's just this unlimited candidate pool out there, and everybody's beaten down their door to work, work there, which has probably never been the reality, unless you're one of those companies that we always talk about, but, you know, the days have changed the times have changed. And I feel like a lot of hiring managers just really don't understand that this is a completely market they're playing in.

Brianna Rooney: Oh yeah. Well, I mean, we could talk back to like years ago when it's like, well, aren't you sipping your own? Kool-Aid like, like, why aren't we the coolest thing, right? Well, no, there's like hundreds of thousands of companies that have that much money and have a cool product. yeah. And it's new. Uh, but I, I think the main thing, and especially something we've seen in talent perch. So if you guys don't know, uh, what talent perch does is we embed recruiters, uh, into organizations. And so, you know, we spend so much time building our culture, making sure everyone's mental health is really strong. We have good comradery, we have good communication. Then they are in a client and all of a sudden, bam, it's, it's not a good environment. So that affects, you know, our people and it affects our culture and it just kind of trickles down. And then we, you know, so what Taylor was saying is that, you know, we just, we just don't wanna one treat people that way, but two it's, it's not really worth it. And I think I, and you hit it on the head, Taylor, when you said we don't, we wanna change the way that they think. So like with the diversity through our training, it's like, we wanna change the way the world views recruiting, but we can't always do that, unfortunately. Yeah. Uh, that's the hard part.

Taylor Bradley: Well, and also I, by the way, plug for another one of our episodes, I'm super excited for when we do the episode and the whole training that's gonna follow and obviously be included in five, we've been working really hard on this. Um, we, we started with hiring manager, re hiring manager, interview training, excuse me. Yeah. And then it evolved into like, wait, but in today's market, the hiring manager is not just responsible for just interviewing. I mean, they really need to get involved in the recruitment cycle in the beginning. And so that's something else, again, save it for another episode. But I think the, the role that hiring managers play in the recruitment cycle has also shifted, you know, they need to be plugging their jobs out there on LinkedIn, but, um, you know, going back to bad business and when to walk away, I mean, every recruiter knows this, the term purple squirrel.

Taylor Bradley: So when you've just got those hiring managers out there that just want, you know, they want an engineer with 10 years of experience, they want 'em in California. They wanna pay them 80 K. You know, it's like, and if you guys can see my face right now, insert eye roll, you know, it's just, it's never gonna happen. And so, you know, one of the things we love to do here at talent perch is we like to show them market data. You know, data speaks to everybody, even if you're not a data person I'm using air quotes, but, um, data speaks to everybody and really showing them, you know, market analytics. This is the market that you're competing in right now. And this purple squirrel it's not gonna happen. Or the other thing that I absolutely love is when they try to find a clone of themselves. Oh

Brianna Rooney: Yes. But it's like, I've been trying to find that for years. uh,

Taylor Bradley: Well, you've met at her here. She is her name's Taylor Bradley. She's the humble hustler. Um, but no, I mean, when they wanna find a clone of themselves, but also on the flip side of that, when everyone they interview isn't good enough because they're not them. They'll never be them. There's never gonna be an exact you. Um, so that's, that's, I, I feel like I've touched on two things. And then the third thing is that somebody too skilled, they almost view as competition to them, even though that's exactly what the job description says, they want it

Brianna Rooney: Love that you touched on that. That's what I was gonna talk about. So we have, in my opinion, a squad B squad C squads, um, on paper, right? Like our, like we don't know them. We don't know their technic ability or whatever it is. Right. But, um, an a team only wants an, a team. Okay. Fair. So pay for it. Uh, a B team could go either way, which is interesting, but then you have your C teams and it's like, God, you know, it's they say that they want an, a squad, but you bring in an, a person and it's like, oh, whoa, excuse me. Like, I don't wanna grow from you. I wanna be like the head honcho still, you know? So yeah. It's so interesting. It's like, I can't even imagine, like, I would love to be the dumbest person in the room. Like that's, I would love to be that, like, I don't even know why, like C squads are scared of a squads, you know, but anyways, it it's all relative and it, it even goes back to, you know, when people wanna focus more on diversity, it's like, well, that takes time. And soda's switching up a C squad to an, a squad takes time.

Taylor Bradley: Absolutely. Well, and then I love that you touched on that because it's like, do you even have the presence in the market, the social footprint to bring in an, a squad?

Brianna Rooney: Yeah, exactly. And, and it's so difficult cuz like, you know, we do sourcing maps. So, um, anyone that's not a recruiter, hasn't done sourcing map, but essentially it's just, you know, you're taking a look at the current team that you're gonna recruit for. You're really dissecting in it. You're seeing like, you know, the people that they say they want, you're finding them on their team. And then you're finding the people that they say they don't want also on their team. And you're just kind of bringing it to their attention, which is again is just data. Uh, yeah. And so it, but it is difficult to say, Hey, um, I know you want an, a squad, but you're a C squad. So, um, but you know, that's not necessarily, I guess, toxic when they're toxic clients. But I think more of like when we go back to, you know, walking away from people like that, it's just, they refuse to educate themselves. They refuse there there's no self-awareness I think that's the problem.

Taylor Bradley: Totally. No. And I think thank you for, for summing that up and framing that in above that's that's what can make a toxic client is that they're, it's just, they're not aware. I mean, there's that you need some self-awareness of really, you know, how your involvement in the interview process, what your presence is in the market. And then, you know, when we talk about hiring managers that just change the position requirements over and over and over again throughout the recruitment cycle, I would say that is one of the biggest ones that has resulted in any time I've ever walked away from a client. It's just, it's, it's never good enough. You know, you find them what they want, they wanna pivot. So we pivot you find them what they want. They want something else. You know, it's like the ones that really just can never make up their mind and they're always wanting something more or they're always changing.

Taylor Bradley: And then, you know, for recruiters since this whole episode is really geared towards recruiters for recruiters. We, we have to keep candid at top of mind. I mean, that's our reputation. Those are also our customers and clients. And so it's when keeping them top of mind, we need to close the loop with them. So every time we do a search, we engage, we reach out, we schedule interviews, we do all of that. We have to close the loop with all of them. And so it just feels like when it becomes like more work than you're literally actually getting paid for and you don't see the cycle ending, it's okay to walk away from bad business. There's plenty of other, um, companies out there that, that need recruiters right now and need recruitment support right now. It's just, I feel like that's a theme that clients need to understand.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. And that prioritize recruiting cause that's its own separate thing. Mm-hmm so you actually made me think of something. When I think back to my agency, life is, um, I would always battle on who's more important clients or candidates. And most of my squad would say clients because they pay our bills. I said, mm-hmm, I'm sorry. Our candidates is what make our world life go around. You know, how many times have I placed the same candidate over the course of the years? You know, it's like, if you have a good candidate, you will go get good clients. Like that's how they will come.

Taylor Bradley: Absolutely. And those candidates will nail the interviews and the clients will just fall in love with them. I mean, it's, it's exactly what you said, like nourishing those candidate relationships as just as important as nourishing the client relationships. But I think it's never, there's never been more of a time than in today's market where it's acceptable to walk away from bad business. Yeah. I know for myself, like eight years ago, five years ago, it's like, I mean, you'll hold on for dear life. I mean, I could, I could tell you a horror story about a client that actually yeah. So I actually had a client, um, at one of my previous employers who called one of my recruiters. Stupid literally said that stupid,

Brianna Rooney: Oh God,

Taylor Bradley: He's like, you're stupid. Your management stupid. The whole company you work for stupid. And I'm like, first of all, I know five I'm like, yeah, exactly. But I mean, and I was also just like disgusted, who says the word stupid these days and who, unless they're five and even my five year old, doesn't say stupid, but it was one of those moments where I feel like a lot of times these hiring managers think that we're just gonna take it, cuz we're so desperate for the business mm-hmm , which obviously shows they have no pulse on the market and how in demand recruiters are like, we don't have time for this nor do we have to put up with this. So, um, I think it really goes into, and one of the other episodes that we'll talk about is just ensuring that relationship between the hiring manager and the recruiter. It's a partnership. It has to

Brianna Rooney: Do that. Yeah.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. That's the who I know that's the, who you'll die on, but um, yeah, no, I mean it's, it's really, really important. And I think for hiring managers to look at the theme of, if you're extending a significant amount of offers or really any amount of offers and they're getting declined, something's wrong. It's not the recruiter's fault at that point. You can't say it's the recruiter's fault. We get all the way to an offer. They decline that's on you.

Brianna Rooney: We have been blamed so many times, like I've actually like I've had a client walk away from me because we didn't close their offer. And you know, especially as an agency, it's like, we're not even an employee of your company. We can only take a candidate so far. You've gotta be kidding me.

Taylor Bradley: Right. Right. And they totally expect that. That's just something that, oh, well it's your job to close 'em. It's like, that's where it goes to the like, okay, well, do you have a solid offer? Cuz we that's one case we can't take dirt and turn that to glitter. You know, the offer is what it is. These are people's lives. You're talking about they're livelihood, you know, so making sure that they come in and, and I know we'll do this on, um, another episode as well is like what should hiring managers know going into the interview and be prepared for, you know, we've talked about that a lot, like coming in with your strongest offer, like the days of haggling and negotiating and trying to low ball, it's just, nobody has time for that. And candidates won't put up with that. Um, and I think, you know, recruiters looking out for all of these themes and on the front end asking the questions, like asking the hiring manager, what's your average time to fill, what's your average time to fill for the specific role that you're gonna be recruiting for for them. Um, what's your percentage of offer decline? Like there's key metrics that they should look out for before they actually accept a search. And then on the flip side, hiring managers need to know that we're not begging for your business anymore. You know, it's, it's very much, we view it as a partnership, all recruiters do.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. No for sure. So what, what is your advice to especially okay. If, if, if I'm just starting my agency and obviously I'm desperate for clients, right? First of all, no one use a D word. Um, but how do you just say no to clients? Like, like that that's the hard part. That's probably the people the listeners are like, how do I, how do I walk away from the money? How do I say no, I don't even have another client. Like what, what do you recommend? Like

Taylor Bradley: Yeah, no, this was, yeah, this was actually gonna be, um, my broke to boss tip. So I can sum it all up in one where yeah, well, your recruiting success is tied into your time and your attitude. And so if someone is stealing either, you need to move on, respect yourself, your time and your efforts. And so that in summary to me, that's it. If, if, if you see these themes that we've already discussed and you know that it's, your success is tied directly to the effort that you put out there, you know, you're putting the effort out there, but you're not seeing the results. Then it's time to walk away that I would consider is a client stealing your effort and time. Um, based on like an extreme word.

Brianna Rooney: Agreed, agreed. Um, so I will tell you the feeling I had when I fired my first client. Oh woo. I loved it. And I made sure that every single one of my recruiters that you know, were also client managers, that they fired their own clients as well. And I'm like, no, cuz like they would get off the phone. They would complain. They would just talk about how this is not gonna, it's not gonna happen. Like, you know, there's so many reasons why, you know, clients, it's just, you need to walk away. It's because if you don't see a win as a recruiter, we deal with roller coasters all the time. We deal with the highs and the lows. But if you're dealing with a client where like you just don't see there being a high, it's really hard to essentially work for free, especially as an agency.

Brianna Rooney: I mean, that's what you're doing. Like you're doing a job and you're not seeing results. Like could anyone imagine coming in every single day, working really hard and then no results. That's what recruiting is. And so that's what we have to deal with on a regular basis. So we go back to mental health and just peer motivation. That's why a lot of people fall out of this job. That's why, you know, we talk about, Hey, we need to train you up to a T. That's why, you know, diversity exists again, you know, to like, we need to train you to handle these things like re the resiliency in recruiting is a huge thing, which again is a different episode, but that's what toxic clients can do. And um, you know, I, I love saying no. And I think no's such a powerful thing because no, literally says I'm worth more than that. And lots of times you'll have a bad client. And once you say no to them, they'll totally change their ways because wanna be treated like.

Taylor Bradley: Boom. I was gonna say the same thing is that oftentimes when you hear them, when they hear you say no, it's like, Ugh, and they're clutching their pearls. And it's like, oh, you know, like clutching through, oh no one ever tells me no, but it's like, you know, you're actually showing that you respect yourself. You respect your time. You respect your effort. You're like I was built for this. I know what I bring to the table. And you know, this can be a really great partnership if we respect each other. But it's also could be, that is an indication of a theme of what that quote unquote partnership would look like for recruiters to look out for. If you already feel like in the, you know, immediate, you know, intake with them that you're not being respected your time isn't being respected. They're dismissive. I mean, these are all things to look out for because it's an indication of what working with them throughout the recruitment cycle would be like,

Brianna Rooney: Oh for sure. So even when you're, you're starting to talk to clients, if they're rescheduling meetings, if they're in a restaurant, like it's all loud and they're, you're like, you literally know like, wow, this person like completely forgot. They were talking to me. If they're not making, you know, recruiting in your time a priority, you walk away because you're just gonna, you know, spin your wheels, trying to make them happy when they're never happy. It's it's just not ever gonna be that. And again, there's, there's tons of business and you just don't wanna start out whether it's agency, whether you're internal, whatever you're doing, whatever you're up to. Um, you're, you're worth more than that, you know? Amen. Empower

Taylor Bradley: Yourself. Amen. Sister,

Brianna Rooney: Let's wrap this up. Cause I feel like this one, man, we're gonna have like a series on this for sure. I, I love this. Um, so thank you all for listening. Definitely tune in every Tuesday and join the email list. It's in the show notes. Same with the Insta. Follow us on Insta Taylor. What, what, what do you got for them?

Taylor Bradley: Yeah, I just wanna wrap up again, the broke to boss tips. So your recruiting success is tied to your time and attitude. If someone's stealing either move on, respect yourself, your time and your efforts and put that effort towards another client. There will always be another client out there always, but one that you actually can see success with. Absolutely. Go get 'em guys get 'em. Oh,

Brianna Rooney: and, and thank you. Thank you all too. You know, like help us make more episodes.

Taylor Bradley: Subscribe. Yes. We would love to hear from y'all as well. So love any feedback. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, Instagram. Happy to hear from y'all and thank y'all for tuning in awesome

Speaker 4: Oodles.