Takeover Unfiltered

welcome to Talent takeover unfiltered when it comes to working hard and keeping it real we know our [ __ ] self-care happiness inner peace and time I'm Brianna Rooney and this is Taylor Bradley hey y'all and we have thrived in chaos and turn it into an art form so Taylor what are we doing here today we're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to a long underrated industry that's full of quote unquote experts all right well then let's take this show to the road hello hello welcome to Talent takeover unfiltered I am extra Jazz today Taylor Dubi how are we doing we doing awesome we're doing amazing we're doing good doing good happy to be here awesome so today we have a great guest Dubi Ben Sham and we are going to talk about the power of a recruiter which I got to tell you excites me I can talk about it every single year I feel like every year we need a new episode of this so you're coming in hot with this um but do tell us why why this subject well I think this subject's important um I think there's a lot of kind of misunderstandings of you know how much value recruiters add to a company um you have like one side says oh they just need to find me people and then the ones you can actually partner with understand that we save money we are we are true business partners we help with candidate experience I mean the list goes on there's just there's just so many reasons to to have this conversation today did you hear that Taylor we save money yeah I don't think any other company would say we save them money I love that you touched on that doy how do we save them money so I'll give you an example of where I currently am at cotra um I've been here almost four and a half years and when I started uh they had well they had a terrible process but that's for another podcast um you know they companies think they need to hire you know recruiters and there's two ways to save money one is of course external fees like that can cost a lot of sure two by having like the correct tools um you can save on like on headcount on your team so like do I need 10 recruiters no I can have five and a couple of amazing tools and those tools will be you know a tenth of the cost of a full-time employee and you know you can never replace the the work of a recruiter but there are some tasks that can't be replaced and I think those are a couple ways to save money and it's just having someone on staff um always thinking about not today's hires but like the next 12 24 months hires you know making funnels things like that there's just I just endless ways to save money and and just being smart about it um I recently just got rid of some licenses because well we weren't really using them so hey saved us 18 Grand how's that [Music] sound it sounds great in your pocket right I know I should I want a percentage of all the money I save oh that's not a bad idea that is actually I would do that for for employees if employees saved me money and I would give them a percentage of that yeah or have that as part of their goals like one of your goals is to help find ways that they could save money on recruitment tools I think that's probably how some companies or I assume some companies do it now is that if that's one of your goals and then you do that then obviously you hit you hit your bonus but yeah so you said something that was interesting and I was waiting to see what Brianna said about it because you were like not you know some parts can be replaced with tools and automation not completely replacing disclaimer not completely replacing human beings and recruiters but um Bri's real big on you know automation tools can't complet they can't replace recruiters so I was curious to hear what your thoughts were when he said that Brianna were you like oh I'm gonna battle him on that because she does that I do like to battle no no I I want to know what tools we might use the same tools I think we do yeah yeah I mean so for instance the sourcing tools right I mean that's a great way I have a sourcer on staff but he still needs a tool right so it's not like fully automated but it allows for that's like email sequencing is probably the greatest invention for recruiters like ever 100% it's a no-brainer thank you for that whoever thought of it um so I think we use cvy right now um as one of our tools and yeah it's fantastic like if you have the right ATS I'm currently been actually for the last year looking at different ats's cuz we want to switch and some of the newer ones are just amazing and they replace some of these other you know types of function functionality right um so yeah as far as you know that particular question I'm a big believer that you cannot replace recruiters with tools or AI yeah because if I wasn't doing phone screens which I'll call them phone screens but they're way more in depth like it just wouldn't be the same kind of results that we currently have so I'm not a big person on automating that top of funnel I'd rather not even post a job and do it on my own and pick and choose the people I want to talk to um so yeah I think that's again automation can help with some of the kind of operational uh administrative tasks but can never replace what we do no chance agreed no we're we're a people business I mean I I love when you first started like hey just go get find me some people it's like okay well let's walk through this and I think that and this is why I'm so excited that we're talking about this now is is it's like we've seen all of these layoffs so duie do you think that if a recruiter sat in like a power seat at each one of these companies and I'm talking a true power seat I'm not not talking about like just one of the fish in the sea but like a true power seat do you think that we would still have all of these layoffs at it's at like at how big everything has been that's a really really good question so my answer to that is no um I keep pushing to get into a power seat and I'm inching my way there because I think that execs again they still don't understand the true value of what we can do when at the Strategic level they get it like oh doobie you filled all my jobs thank you so much you know uh we've had an incredible track record there but to be in those meetings and be able to say well a couple things you know let's not have multiple layoffs like if we're going to have to have them from a talent perspective and hiring perspective and kind of internal um culture perspective let's go bigger the first time and then we can like rehire but when you have a second one it's not good so like I don't know if people were talking about that in the exact meeting because I wasn't there right um so that's that's one area and then also what happens is companies get overly excited or out over their skis I guess some people would say um and you overhire like you get let's say in our case you get VC funding and the VC says okay hire a bunch of people it's like okay wait are you thinking about what could happen in a downturn are thinking about what could happen uh if is things slowed down and then you know that happens so there are there are some good reasons for layoffs like maybe you're pivoting a little bit and you realize like well I don't need 25 salese my my Market's smaller I only need you know five sales people or my marketing team's eight I only need four I don't need bdrs I mean there there are things that make sense and then that get it's an opportunity to get get rid of some low performers we all you know they're always thrown in there that's for sure that and that's okay I mean that's just part of business right we're we're hopefully in this business to make our business successful I mean that's how I view it like I'm instrumental in the success of the company I work for and I take it personally when I'm interviewing candidates I think are you going to add to the value of my stock I just I mean it's not just like I'm not trying to fill a seat and I think that's another problem recruiters are kind of incentivized to like fill seats and get you know fill positions like that's okay but that should be like a small part of it like I'd rather when when hiring managers say you know what I think this person can do the job I think we should move forward I say yeah no that's not that's not gonna no we need to keep looking this good enough kind of in their mind because they're so desperate right managers are desperate to to fill jobs because they're doing work of three or four people they want to fill the job so anyway see I could keep going on going it was so good I was ferociously writing Taylor you go I just one of the things I was just thinking about as you were talking and some of the stuff you touched on is I'm like and I know that Brien and I we've talked about this so many times and like just how people don't really value recruiting um they don't really treat it at like as important and integral role in the company because they're the ones obviously we're bringing the talent into your organization we're bringing the CEOs CFOs whoever it is we're bringing those people that are going to those positions that you actually do feel um change and shift and move the organization but it starts with recruiting and I've been thinking recently on like you know just some of the interviews I've gone through and stuff and just how critical it is for a recruiter to show up with enthusiasm excitement like they're the first point of contact and I've had some that I'm just like I I don't if this is an indication of what it's like to work at this company because the recruiter just like like Soo energy late to the call like they're the first impression truly that somebody has of that company and so if you're recruiting a CFO for an organization and they want like the best of the best and so you went out and found this amazing passive Talent that's just step one that's part one and or only one part of the process you have to be charismatic and enthusiastic and sell them on the company and be positive and be you have to basically make them think in a 30 minute to an hour long conversation like okay this is somebody I would want to work with if this is what it's like to work with this company this this you know impression I've gotten of this recruiter and how much they like the company or their energy or their enthusiasm I mean you're the first salesperson and the most critical salesperson like they're not going to move forward in the process if they didn't have a good experience with you so they're not going to move forward to get to who they would report to this if it's a CFO they'd report to the CEO so they're not even going to make it to that CEO interview if the first interview with the recruiter doesn't go well so I think that's another area where we could really shed some light on that's it's so important important that you have a great recruiter and that they are giving candidates a great first impression of your company and like how that could that's a GameChanger for the type of talent that you want to bring in or the caliber of talent Taylor that is music to my ears I coulde more I try this is why I don't I need to clone myself or find someone similar like there's something that just my life experience in general is so instrumental in my recruiting process because I can talk about so many things yeah when I when I'm hiring exec level and just another touch on this real quick which is we had retained firms doing our exec searches and then I said to our CEO D you should just let me run with this because there's no way they're going to be able to talk about the company like I they don't know the company they don't in and out so now there is not a chance in the world that our company would ever hire a retained executive Search firm for a sea level search because there's GNA be run it but to your point when I do my first calls and depending on the um role it's either 30 minutes or an hour like I spend a lot of time and I usually start by giving candidates just a really honest rundown of of the company like the layoffs like the good and the bad and it's fun and we joke and by the end of that call they're like they think they already have the job seriously like yeah it's almost that it's almost there like and they can't wait to meet more people I get emails and my you know we do a survey like always the recruiting side is like a four out of four and then you know after that it's like you never know yeah but I so agree with what you're saying I think that's where companies really miss the mark when they have someone that's like oh I want to be a recruiter I have no experience okay great here you're a recruiter give it a shot we'll try you know we'll help you but that first call we're the face of the company we're the first like you said first impression where the number one salesperson like the VP of sales is always like dude I got to get you on my team like you basically closed 140 deals you know like every every candidate to me should be treated like a customer or like a prospect right like what would you would you do that to like a you know tier one customer you're trying to land would you treat them like that would you not get back to them would you ignore their emails so it's all part of the big picture of like not just finding the candidates uh making them feel good but like their overall experience throughout the process absolutely so I was actually just talking to my kids about cloning they were terrified they were like what technolog is going to exist I'm like I don't know someone's gonna clone somebody so it's just funny if you were to clone yourself you know so I think that our listeners would really love this like what would you have in your toolbox I mean not even just Technologies but what like um just training wise what do people have to have that we you feel like doesn't exist often um it's a good great question so if I think about how I interact with candidates you have to you have to make it fun and interesting but you also have to really know what you're talking about so I'll interview let's say an engineer and and I'll say what kind of questions you have for me they'll be like well they're more Technical and I'll say great let's hear them and and then they'll say like what is your stack and I'll be like Java post and I like just name it off so being prepared I have meetings with the sales team I have meetings with the product team I have meetings with the engineering team I have meetings with exec on a regular basis like I want to know the product and the company better than anyone so I think like it's not just like how do you attract Talent is like how much information do you have to help attract the talent um but again like sometimes I'll give you a quick fun story I've been working on this director of marketing search and and for some reason the last four candidates all went to SEC universities and I know they're into college football so I I just start talking to one she was amazing and it turns out she was actually the mascot for the florid Gators so we spent 15 minutes in our interview talking about that I couldn't get that out of my head I kept picturing her as a mascot but it was so fun so like but like who does that on literally 15 minutes we talked about college football how it was to be a mascot what did you you know how did he get that job you know which all of the stuff she talked about was relevant in a you know big picture way like kind of understanding why she did that and and why that the soft skills you know that we keep you know talking more and more about that I don't think um hiring managers even really process that like it's more of like can you do the job it's like how about like D I love this are you going to increase our stock price like that I literally wrote down I'm like I I that's like the best thing ever I do I seriously think that all the time like but like the soft skills is what is going to do that in addition to like their hard skills and so I think that that's interesting that it's like you're putting people at ease you know because every single interview is anxiety you know filled it's scary it's like are they gonna like me here we are in preschool again making friends you know but um yeah I think that that's so important and that's that's a gift like that that's a gift but it's something you can train people to understand and grasp but it takes a lot of practice I have a good one I um when we interview candidates I tell you I have like a dedicated sorcerer I basically know before my call unless it's a terrible call that this person is going to the next step right so in that case and I don't do this every call but like I can tell like in the first two minutes like how we're interacting if I can see it's going well kind of like how we're talking right now yeah I'll say I just want you to know you're already moving forward so you can relax and we're just going to have a conversation and they're like you can just see like they and then then they just talk and then they open up and they may give me nuggets that I would never get because yeah it is stressful like it's like their life is on the line their it's a career move like getting new jobs is hard it's stressful like you want to want to make them feel can feel good about it so I totally agree it's so true like I was actually just thinking about that going back to like having just gone through some interviews recently when they were giving me really honest feedback and like as far as my candidacy and where I was at and or like you're our front runner or you're in you know the final three or like just stuff like that it's it does it's very disarming in a good way it like puts you at ease to give like okay they already feel a certain level or or way about me you know I'm already they've already lighted me to a certain extent so to speak and so I feel like it kind of disarmed me to give my real authentic like better answers because I was less nervous less anxious less overthinking everything and I was like okay the the answers were authentic my examples were better it was it just flowed more easily because they gave me good feedback like that which I think I've never really been a fan or not a fan of that I've never really advocated one way or another but recently seeing that experience play out I'm like that's a really good way to like you know disarm the candidates put them at ease and let them know where they stand with you and where they stand with the company and then I think it results in a better interview I completely agree with what you're saying so true I um when I'm doing like the higher level search actually really any search I'll tell a candidate that that I know is moving forward I say look I'm your advocate so if you want to have a 10-minute check-in before your next round with the CEO or the VP of sales like I'm available we can do it on the phone we can do a zoom like you know use me to help you I'm here for you y and like I don't think a recruiters say that I could be wrong but I just don't think so people don't believe it like I okay we're this little clip right here we're going to blast on LinkedIn over and over again because okay because I feel like on LinkedIn um for like the last two weeks we're talking about ghosting I mean I don't know like I it's all the time right but it's like we're like put on this cross like we're like the worst human beings in the universe you know and it's like do you guys realize that literally our job is to cheerlead for you our job is to get to get you with this career our job you know it's like if we we could show you our job descriptions like we're not against you we love you we want to love you we want this relationship we want to you know like we want you to have you bring our stock up exactly um but oh my God I want it that's bad recruiting leadership right because ghosting is a result of like how their recruiting team is being taught to manage their jobs I guess right I mean they're also probably not using enough technology either or you know so they're just they're just burning the midnight oil you know there's only how many hours in a day and like you know there's burnout all over the place and everyone's a lot leaner now so like that kind of goes to tools which I know is a different subject and I know we're getting close to time um but so this question I have to ask okay you said you inching closer to getting a real seat at the table how would you suggest people do that how this is the power of a recruiter how do we get that seat that's great question so as I mentioned earlier I have regular check-ins weekly or bi-weekly with all of the execs and hiring managers so another thing I do is once we get someone hired I I check in so I have the pulse of like almost every employee in a company so I don't just like my job doesn't stop once we hire them so now those people become managers and they get promoted and you know so what happens in an exec meeting is oh we're having a layoff and this has been told to me yeah there's no way we're letting duie go and that's part of it is that like you have to insert yourself and let these hiring managers and execs know your value and just by checking in and saying like a typical check it would be how's the team doing um do you foresee any changes I'd like to get on top of that if you think there's someone that we may have to replace or hey we made a sale like how's headcount looking do we need to add a body so like I'm doing things anyway that are kind of around that and now it's just a matter of you know get me into those meetings so I think I'm there um the next kind of round of exact offsites it'll I won't be physically there but they're going to like loot me into those conversations so I'm having them already with exec and hiring managers but like you know when they're doing their planning they're not thinking of me and I know they're not asking the right questions because they don't know what to ask so right that's what I would say is like be more involved than just filling the job like it's after you fill the job it's all the other stuff you do like I said like immerse yourself in the technology and exec will say doie knows more about the product than people on my team so like you just got to like you know spend the time to educate yourself within the cor yeah is that your broke to boss tip it could be yeah go ahead and hit him with it that's a good tip though I will say yeah go ahead and hit him with your broke to boss tip all right my broke to boss tip is to empower yourself and understand actually how much power and say you have as a recruiter we as recruiters have interviewed thousands of people and hired probably thousands as well especially we've been in the business a long time managers I've had a team of 20 you know great how many people did interview 40 you know know so like our experience is so much broader and use that to your advantage Hing managers and execs they they come to me first every time they they need my advice so you need to kind of remember and that's a result of like that kind of behavior so my advice is to you know kind of embrace your power realize how much you have you know don't be cocky about it but but just put yourself out there and you know meet with these exec and meet with hiring managers on a regular basis so they know your value that's my that's my tip love it love that love that so basically you are the expert you do this well I do this well like and and and we are in this own space I I love that I you know you own your Genius it's like yeah and you're right it's not cocky it's just like I do this really well like I should do this well I have experience I you know yeah I am not going to tell you how to run your engineering team but you should in return not tell me how to run my team preach all right thought we're ending on that pre yeah t thank you so much listeners thank you so much you know remember we love the reviews we love the shares if you love this podcast please share it you know throughout the TA World recruiting World thanks so much thanks by see by