Takeover Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney:
All right. Welcome back to another super fun podcast. And this one is gonna feature Seth Edwards and basically to help recruiters better support hiring managers is what we're digging into. And Seth currently helps companies successfully adopt cloud technologies by providing architecture guidance and best practices based on their business and product requirements before this. And how I know Seth is he was an engineering manager and an SRE at cruise automation. Yes, that is that AV company.

Taylor Bradley:
And although I have never met Seth until today, I am absolutely a fan. He is probably going to be a dream hiring manager for any recruiters out there that hopefully our team that will be working with him. And he really provided us an amazing broke to boss tip from the hiring manager perspective. So I know I always say this, listen in guys, make sure you listen to the end, but again, just, just providing a tip from a different perspective. So you guys gotta check it out,

Brianna Rooney:
Welcome to talent takeover

Taylor Bradley:
Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney:
When it comes to working hard and keeping it real. We know our S.H.I.T., Self care, happiness, inner peace and time. I'm Brianna Rooney. And this is Taylor Bradley. Hey y'all and we have thrived in chaos and turned it into in art form. So, Taylor, what are we doing here today?

Taylor Bradley:
We're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to a long underrated industry. That's full of quote unquote experts.

Brianna Rooney:
All right. Well then let's take this show to the road. Yeah. Like we're in here battling yeah. Recruiter versus hiring manager fight um, so Seth, I've had the benefit obviously of, of talking to you a lot, um, really about how do, how can recruiters understand, um, what a hiring manager is looking for. And this is very specific because this is in tech. So a lot of recruiters, especially that are starting out in tech, um, have a hard time grasping, you know, the languages, the technologies, they look at a job descriptions, their eyes, you know, go to the back of their head. How do you tackle that?

Seth Edwards:
I think the main thing, um, is really just developing a close partnership with the hiring managers that are there. I don't think that there's like a general answer in one day, you just master it and then you know how to move forward with every engagement after that. I think it's very much, um, a, uh, a strong relationship plays a big part in this. So what I've seen work, uh, when, when things have worked really well, what that looks like is, um, a recruiter that is, uh, regularly meeting, uh, with that hiring manager and having deeper discussions and getting them to really describe in, in detail of what they're looking for. Um, because often, you know, what we see is, you know, checklists of skills, um, and that's not enough to really paint a picture of what a good, uh, candidate looks like. So, um, you know, setting that up is one of the, the main things I think that, uh, like regular meetings, uh, and starting to get almost to where you could speak for the hiring manager, uh, because that's, that's a place that you would wanna get to.

Brianna Rooney:
Oh, I like that. So, okay. How can they though speak tech? So I think what happens, and I know we've talked about this is we'll have generic job descriptions. There's always like, Hey, here's a Python role. Here's an SRE role, you know, go. Um, and I think a lot of times too, that the recruiters themselves, they are very intimidated by it and they don't want to ask the hiring manager too many questions because they're like, shoot, I'm supposed to know this. Like, why, why don't I know this? So how, how do you handle that?

Seth Edwards:
I'd say, no, they should feel comfortable. Uh, like we know that they're not in there to know in depth about all the different technologies. It's even hard for engineers to stay in touch with all the latest, like different technologies that come out. Right. If you look at hacker news, there's like always a new, you know, JavaScript framework database that people have to pay attention to. So it's hard enough for us to keep up with that. And we can't expect recruiters to also keep up with all of that. Um, I also think that a lot of those things are a distraction anyways, and like the core skills that people need, uh, don't change as much. Um, I think one of the things, you know, um, that I would, uh, I'd also say like getting in there for, you know, to, to understand it, you know, if you wanna put the extra effort, what I used to do is just give, uh, the recruiters like reading material. They shouldn't have to be that, uh, intimidated by the technology, you know, do a small coding tutorial, something like that. It might go a long way. We're not gonna start making code, but, um, you, you might start to get a better idea, um, of what these technologies are. Right. And, um, I think also coming, you know, asking for analogies, um, to describe what they're looking for helps, but you're basically trying to become a, a matchmaker, uh, for that specific person. So that's, you, you do need to have like an intimate relationship, I'd say,

Brianna Rooney:
Nice.

Taylor Bradley:
I, I love where you're going with this, Seth, cuz you've already provided us a couple of examples and ways in which recruiters can help build rapport and relationships with hiring managers. And then you started to touch on, um, what hiring managers can do to build a close relationship with their recruiters. Because like you said, it's matchmaking. I mean it's two ways. So, um, you said coding tutorials, sending them reading material. Can you talk a little bit more about that specifically, um, about what you recommend hiring managers do on their end to help build that rapport?

Seth Edwards:
Sure. I'd say, um, you know, I usually try to find, you know, reading material in the form of like either books that are freely available, blogs, um, maybe videos and things like that. And good recruiters will take the time to study those and learn those, you know? Um, and um, you just gotta be able to speak candidly. I think it's also about making time and I think this is where probably the biggest factor of what I've seen fail is, um, first of all, on companies that don't allocate enough time to hiring, they don't put it as an OKR, the company, but they don't give enough time. So I think, uh, making time for working with the recruiter on,

Taylor Bradley:
So I have a question for you. So you seem to be, and I mean, I'm already like, okay, I'm on team Seth. Um, because I, I already see that you, you value what we do as recruiters that you, if you listen to the podcast, you see, we talk a lot about that, that the recruiting industry doesn't really get the respect that it deserves. A lot of people are like, that's not a job, it's, there's no strategy to it. Um, so I'm curious to know, have you always just naturally had this respect and respect for recruiting and what we do or was there ever a hiring situation or a light bulb moment when you're like, oh, I need to actually make this a priority. So everything you're saying is giving me chills, like the books and making time and, you know, wanna scale their organizations, like all the keywords that just give me all the good feels. Right. But have you always felt this way or was there a light bulb moment or situation that kind of was a turning point for you?

Seth Edwards:
Um, I think early on, I, I maybe I didn't appreciate recruiters as much because I got a lot of, you know, emails saying, oh, Hey, we think you're a great fit for this role. And then they describes somebody who is not me. So, um, so I became really cynical for a while. Mm-hmm . Um, but then, um, you know, when I worked at a company where we really needed help, a lot of people left, um, and we needed to turn the team around and kinda overhaul the team, starting by hiring, you know, hiring my own manager, my own new boss, as well as new coworkers. Uh, you realize really quick, like if you wanna stay at the company that you're at, you're gonna have to help them build out the team and the recruiters are gonna be your ally. So that's kinda the situation I was in once that that really helped, uh, me get that perspective.

Brianna Rooney:
So how did you then get the team involved? Because it's like, it can't just take one hiring manager that does it. Right. You know, it takes, you know, it takes a village to, to hire in general. So how did you get everyone on the same page?

Seth Edwards:
Uh, so I think that, you know, in, in the scenarios where I've had to build teams, which there's like two, like there's two times where, you know, I really had to like build out a team that would dictate the success of this, you know, this team sort that we're building, we just made it a top priority. Right? Like we would spend time, you know, sitting there thinking what interview questions do we think are important and debate that amongst the team, what kind of behavioral questions do we care about? You know, um, and kinda come up with these. And, uh, and we dedicated, you know, like maybe 20 hours a week to this, um, and getting that buy in from, uh, our, you know, our management above us, uh, and making sure that it was okay to do that. That was crucial the times where I've seen us not be successful is when they're like, you need to hire people, but they don't ever allocate time. And then you're trying to do it in your spare time. You know, you're trying to plan these things on the train in the morning and that's when you, you don't do as well.

Brianna Rooney:
Oh yeah,

Taylor Bradley:
Go ahead, God, sorry.

Brianna Rooney:
I was gonna go, sorry. I, I can't help, but I have so many things. Um, so talk to us about a situation where it's like the, you feel the recruiter relationship and the hiring manager relationship with you. Like, it was just like, it was a home run. Like what, what, what did you feel from that?

Seth Edwards:
Um, the one thing was the recruiter had a lot of empathy for us and was happy with just doing some of the logistical work. Right. Like just putting the time on the calendar. That's, that's a lot of work, you know, to like, uh, do schedule the, uh, the follow up calls. Right. They would always make time on their calendar to go in and say, okay, what did you like? And not like about this last candidate that came through and let's refine this loop that we have. Right. Um, and after spending a lot of time and really like listening with us and finding like a common language to speak amongst us, we had this like as a, you know, like a fine tuned machine where, uh, they were like, they would come in and, you know, be like, Hey, I've got a great candidate for you. Um, and they, you know, more often than not be right. And, uh, and we'd be able to move a lot quicker. Right. Because if they're able to make the same decisions as we would make, then we're able to like, be prepared with a, with an offer for a good candidate, much faster. Right. We're not gonna get beat up by the company, things like that. So,

Brianna Rooney:
Yeah.

Taylor Bradley:
So I love that you said that, and, and I'm taking notes because I, Brandon and I talk about this all the time. We're like, oh, this could be a whole nother episode. So, um, you know, we talk a lot, our whole podcast is really just about from the recruiter or the recruiting perspective. And so I'm sitting here taking notes and like, oh, like, oh my God, we need Seth on to, to really just have a whole entire, maybe a on the millionaire recruiter, just really talking about things that hiring managers can do to help ensure that these relationships are successful. And even the things that you've kind of mentioned that have stood out to you as far as like, what's a great recruiter versus not really like a generic email, not such a great recruiter, but the things that have really the empathy that, I mean, that gave me chills.

Taylor Bradley:
When you said that such small things is like handling the logistics and the scheduling and any small things that the recruiters can do to show you that they value your time and they understand how busy you are. I, I just, it gave me all the feels. And, um, I, I would love to hear from your perspective, what are some thing, other things that you feel we said make time, right. But what are some other things that you feel hiring managers can do to show recruiters, you know, that same level of empathy? Can you talk further about that?

Seth Edwards:
Sure. I think it's, it's really important. Uh, again, going back to like finding a common language, that that's the most important thing. Um, and kind of what I would do is paint a, you know, try to paint a picture of what a, a good candidate, uh, would be as far as the skills. Um, and especially, um, I think maybe going over the resume, one of the things that I would do is, um, you know, really spend time with a recruiter about what a good resume looks like for me and the kinda expectations that I have. Um, you know, we, I had a recruiter once join and they kind of had a, a habit of sending me resumes that had the longest list of bullet points. And I explained that, you know, for me personally, uh, I, that, that wasn't what was most important, you know, um, because I'm only gonna read a couple of them and then go try to have a discussion.

Seth Edwards:
So, um, you know, explaining to them like what, you know, what I'm looking for in that, um, you know, what kind of like what to kind of understand from the companies that, uh, that these candidates are coming from, and, you know, what that means, uh, just describing the whole landscape and these are kind, you know, skills that, uh, um, you're not gonna just learn, um, from a book, um, just understanding, okay. You know, well, this person's coming from Twitter, you know, we already know, um, what kind of tech stack Twitter uses, how they run their teams is, you know, is this gonna be a good fit or not, you know, based off what we know there. So, um, so kind of, uh, describing that is, uh, is one of the things I think

Brianna Rooney:
I love that you touched on the resume. I actually haven't heard this specifically from a hiring manager, but I know that the, um, what we used to do like at techies is we wanted to make sure that everyone knew that the resume came from us. It didn't have to have our logo on it. We wanted to be very uniform with the resumes. So then our hiring managers could very quickly go over the resume, review it, move forward. And so we did a lot of, um, we had a lot of questions with, with, you know, multiple companies and saying, Hey, do you like this format of a resume? So then once we, we had that right format, then that's kind of like the staple we did. But, um, I love that you actually dug into, like, I, I need to look at a resume this way. Like, you actually went through the time to say my eyes work this way. I need you to do it like that. Now that's a relationship. I love that. And wish every hiring manager was like, you .

Seth Edwards:
Yeah. That's fantastic. Love that you could, that you came up with a standard form, cause that would help

Brianna Rooney:
Mm-hmm

Taylor Bradley:
No same. I'm sitting over here, like thinking like, okay, Seth is a dream to work with and the stuff that you, I think it's so important, everything you're touching on for hiring managers to also come to these intake sessions prepared. And so it sounds like you're one of those managers that like, like Brianna said that this is kind of what captivates my eyes, this is what I'm looking for. This is the, basically the submittal format, um, or even I've had hiring managers come with like a sample resume, um, a resume of, you know, one of their top hires that they just had for that exact same role. So they come to the intake session with this, as well as a list of competitors, cuz all that's gonna do is just help us help you. You know, mm-hmm so I love that in summary, you're kind of like, Hey recruiters, come prepared and hiring managers need to come prepared to these conversations and it's gonna ensure that you get off to the right foot and also a smooth recruitment cycle.

Brianna Rooney:
Mm-hmm yeah. Love that.

Taylor Bradley:
And so do you set expectations with your recruiters as far as process? Like I would love to know about, because you're kind of like my, like I've got Seth on a pedestal appear of like a hiring manager and what everybody should do. So do you kind of come with like a process and this is what I want the process to be. Do you look to the recruiter to kind of identify for you? What is a seamless and efficient process to ensure the best candidate experience? What are your thoughts there?

Seth Edwards:
I usually kind of lean in for the recruiter to kind of establish a lot of that because, um, the times when I've been hiring manager, um, I'm not always involved in every piece of that process. Right. Like I'm not there for the initial phone contact and everything. So, um, so I, I think it's better for the recruiter, um, to, to really establish that, but just with enough of my feedback to make it, you know, so that the things that directly impact me, um, I can do my best with. Right.

Taylor Bradley:
Absolutely. And then, um, one question that I have that this is a big one and I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm glad I finally have a hiring manager to ask this. Um, so one of the big things that we see is just hiring managers, being dazzled by the halo effect, you know, the interviewer becomes so enraptured by one particular candidate. What are your thoughts on that? Whenever it could be the first candidate, right? Mm-hmm so I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Are you like, Hey, if this person matches exactly what I'm looking for, let's pull the trigger. Just kind of talk to us a little bit about what your process is there.

Seth Edwards:
Yeah. That's actually a really tricky one. Uh, and I don't think I've ever mastered that one, but uh, yeah, I'd say, um, I'd usually pull the trigger if we think that the person is a good fit, go ahead and give them the offer. Um, I don't think that we need to keep pulling people through at least how things are as,

Taylor Bradley:
Yeah. I, if I had like a little bell, like a like right answer, like that was

Brianna Rooney:
Like, like perfect family feud.

Taylor Bradley:
Yeah. Perfect answer that. I mean, in this kind of, you touched on it, Seth, in this candidate market, you can't wait, you can't wait mm-hmm

Seth Edwards:
yeah.

Brianna Rooney:
Nice. This was awesome. And again, we always say this, we could go on and on and on and we have, but uh, we have to hit it with the broke to boss tip from Seth please.

Seth Edwards:
Yeah. So I'd say just, uh, empathy and being humble are the two key factors here that you need to make like a successful relationship between the hiring manager.

Brianna Rooney:
Love that it goes both ways.

Taylor Bradley:
Humble, love it, empathy and being humble and, and not only in recruiting, just all things in life, Seth empathy and being humble.

Brianna Rooney:
So you're saying just be a good person.

Taylor Bradley:
Yeah. life tips was Seth. You guys didn't know you were gonna get that today.

Brianna Rooney:
love that. Thank you so much, Seth. Well,

Seth Edwards:
Seth, thanks so much.

Taylor Bradley:
It's a pleasure.