Takeover Unfiltered

welcome to Talent takeover unfiltered

when it comes to working hard and

keeping it real we know our [ __ ]

self-care happiness inner peace and time

I'm Brianna Rooney and this is Taylor

Bradley hey y'all and we have thrived in

chaos and turn it into an art form so

Taylor what are we doing here today

we're here to give you a raw under the

hood view of all things recruiting and

finally give credit where credit is due

to a long underrated industry that's

full of quote unquote experts all right

well then let's take this show to the

road hello welcome to another amazing

episode of talent takeover unfiltered

you might be wondering wait someone is

missing yes the wonderful fabulous

Taylor Bradley is not on today so sorry

about that I'm sure she'll be on the

next one uh but I have an amazing guest

Amy Silverman who is the director of

recruiting at chime Amy how you doing

I'm doing great I'm excited to be

chatting with you w nice okay so we are

gonna dig and I got to tell you guys I I

get very excited in all of these but

we're going to talk about how to scale a

company at any size at any time um and

the reason I get excited about this is

because as we've seen so many layoffs so

long I mean Amy you've been in

recruiting for a really long time you've

seen a lot of this we've seen the Cycles

I want some sustainability right how do

we how do we do that because it it all

starts with how do we scale correctly so

walk us through quickly you know how did

like you've had quite a journey in your

career so far so I would imagine you're

pretty passionate about this subject

yeah definitely I um as most people do

landed in recruiting kind of on a whim

went to the University of Illinois down

in Champagne Orana and studied

advertising and Communications and

figured that would be the the path that

I went down and I actually met somebody

who said Amy you have a really good

personality for recruiting have you ever

thought about it and I was like

recruiting like what is recruiting

what's this all about uh and so she said

well why don't you come in in Shadow and

and kind of see see if you like this

whole Rec recruiting thing and I did and

got offered a job you know shortly after

that started my career doing third party

agency recruiting I learned a ton about

the recruiting space and and just sort

of like how the whole thing works um and

then went over to Groupon very early

stay Groupon days I I'm based in Chicago

and there was really no Tech in Chicago

at all sobron was kind of like the first

tech company in Chicago that was was

growing and scaling quickly uh so built

out their marketing design creative

functions bunch of other teams uh very

like I said very early on was there for

almost six years um and saw it kind of

go through its its high points uh and

and kind of then jumped off the the

group on coupon Factory roller coaster

and went over few uh Facebook well now

meta but when I was there it was

Facebook uh was there for about two and

a half years and and built out and and

scaled their leadership functions across

the family of apps so think Instagram

Facebook uh WhatsApp Oculus sort of

across the board

um and then a former cooworker of mine

from gron said hey Amy we're we're

building out a a Chicago office uh for a

little company called chime would you be

interested and uh kind of learned a

little bit about our mission and kind of

what what chime was all about and really

loved it uh so decided to join been with

chime for over four years when I started

there were under 200 employees and now

we've got about over 1,200 or so so lots

of growth short amount of time really

fun I was one of the first I think I was

the second employee in Chicago um we got

you know over a 100 in Chicago now so

lots of lots of moving and grooving

which has been fun yeah oh my God it's

hard for me not to start at group on

because when you said roller coaster I I

also I was a um contingency recruiter so

like I know all of the group on like

that's what was like the heat of my

recruiting career and I I definitely saw

a lot over there um so with all of I

mean because you have you have like name

brands on on you know your your resume

and your your uh Journey

what is the hardest part of

scaling yeah you know I think it's

really just taming the wild west right

you come in and there's a lot of things

going on and it's really about figuring

out what to tackle first um and I think

sometimes what happens is folks can get

really overwhelmed because it feels like

maybe there's no process and maybe

there's no tooling and maybe there's no

this and that and so you can kind of get

like sucked into this what do I do first

and and how do I do it and I got to make

shirt it's perfect and I that's where

people tend to get kind of stuck um and

so my thought is all right if you don't

have the budget for you know some big

fancy tool that that's okay you can kind

of build it and and do it on your own

and it doesn't have to be perfect and as

you continue to building scale you'll

make a use case as to why you may need

the budget for X Y and Z and it'll

continue to get better over time but

it's really taking that first actionable

step to doing anything and I think

that's where a lot of people kind of get

hung up yeah so how do you when you talk

about having budget like how lean have

you had to be I know like as we're

starting to tighten things up even again

but I'm sure imagine you're was pretty

lean in the beginning yeah you know I've

I've done things out of you know Google

Sheets and just I'm sure as as everybody

has um to to kind of like build

reporting and build things like that all

the way through having you know amazing

tooling that that you can kind of use to

to pull things even so far as I've

worked in in places and in scaled where

we didn't have any ATS and we were using

you know email as form of of an ATS

which is obviously not sustainable or

scalable but you know you have to work

with what you have and you also have to

be able to understand how to explain

recruiting to people that don't work in

recruiting Because I think sometimes

people think recruiting is like easy

right you know it's like how hard could

it be to you know get on the phone and

get somebody to come and work here and

you know why is this so challenging and

all these things why we need to spend

money on it and I think once people

start to see the value of recruiting and

the value of people and talent at their

company then they start to to want to

invest for it because at the end of the

day your human capital is the most

important thing that you have in your

entire company right like that that's my

two cents anyways you are giving me

chills over here because oh my god um I

I once had someone tell me that a monkey

could do my job so thank you person for

that man no monkey I don't

know that was many years ago and I just

will never forget that I was so insulted

um but yeah so hiring is literally the

most important thing any company does

it's like so I I'm building a course on

um how to recruit for startups because

that's its own separate you know the

Beast right um like as we're talking

about sustainability and so I was kind

of doing research around what I wanted

to deliver but like working with

startups working lean and then now

seeing why do startups fail and one of

the main reasons is because they didn't

have the right

Talent yeah and the communication wasn't

together or they didn't you know so that

like I totally agree Talent is

absolutely 100% the main the main

component and then also keeping it

together retention and all absolutely

because at the end of the day if you

don't have the right people and the

right rules you're going to have to do

your job all over again so we always say

that when we're you know talking to

candidates too I always tell this to my

team when they're about to close a deal

and and chatting with somebody that

might be joining company we're not in

the business of convincing you why you

should take a job that you don't want to

take or doesn't make sense for you

because at the end of the day you'll

just leave and we'll have to refill the

job so it's basically like putting water

in a bucket that has holes in the bottom

of it we don't want to do that we want

to make sure that you're suited for the

role and that you're going to be

successful we're setting you up for

Success you're excited it makes sense

for you um because otherwise you know

we're just going to have to do it all

over again so at the end of the day I

think sometimes recruiters can get a bad

rap like oh you're just trying to push

me into a role or push me into doing

something and that's not the business

that we're in at all we want to make

sure that you're going to be successful

at the end of the day okay I love that

so then are your goals like your

recruiting goals are you guys think

about like what your closing rate is

because that's definitely part of a

metric that we talk about sure I think

closing rate is important but I I think

fundamentally more important than

closing rate is candidate experience and

on on top of that that um I think the

other metric that you have to think

about is the difficulty of the search

that you're working on right if you're

working on a pipeline search of you know

I don't know entry level customer

service folks let's say that's going to

be a much different Clos rate than a

senior director director VP search that

might be a little bit more challenging

there might be some more Nuance to it um

so I think you have to take into account

the challeng challenging this it's not a

word but the difficulty you difficulty

for Monday bear with me the difficulty

of a search to to really understand the

Clos rate that's tied to that and I

think across the board we tend to get

into this place where we make one

universal metric and we use that to

measure a bunch of different things

without thinking about the

nuances sometimes folks do that with

diversity sometimes folks do that you

know close rates people do that with a

bunch of things things and I try to

really tell the whole narrative because

I think that's really important when not

only when you're just scaling and

building something but even when it's

built and you're in maintenance mode uh

it's just as important to understand

what you're measuring and how it's being

talked about and thought about does that

make sense no 100% I think that's great

especially like my my ears perked up you

said diversity and inclusion you know

those numbers because like that's its

own separate Beast probably its own

separate like webinar because well okay

I have I have to ask this when scaling

when scaling when do you sit like hey

let's not forget about this let's Stu

because I I know like I've worked with

lots of seed companies series a right

they're fresh like all they're thinking

about is we have something to build

they're not thinking of anything else

how we do it are we doing it right

anything so at what point do you sit

down at the table with them and been

like we're not thinking this through

we're thinking only about the F next

three months can we think past that so I

think there's a couple of things at play

first of all whenever you get into a new

company and you're scaling really in any

role recruiting aside you have to build

trust right and so how do you build

trust so I think about building trust

with data because I could tell you all

the feelings I have in the world and

that's all fine and well and I

personally think my feelings matter but

you know the business may not right so

coming to the table with data is way

more important than saying I think or I

feel and so I think you start to build

trust by coming to the table with data

first and that what the data shows

historically is that companies that are

the most successful tend to be diverse

and tend to match their user base so

when we think about things we think

about I always use the phrase like do

our insides match our outsides so does

our company match the member base and

the user base that we're going after uh

and at the end of the day if the answer

to that is no then I think the argument

becomes well you can't build something

something that's going to be successful

you can't scale something that's going

to be successful if you don't understand

the users that you're serving and the

only way to understand that user base is

to have this diversity of thought within

your organization and so it's sort of

this like chicken or the egg scenario

where you have to kind of like walk it

back to get folks to kind of like

understand and buy into that value so

that's kind of my thought on it yeah wow

that's awesome so at what and I don't

doesn't matter what company but what was

the biggest ask as far as headcount like

has anyone said all right here's 100

here we need, 1500 like what what was

the biggest ask at one time yeah I mean

we've we' I've read a lot uh you know I

think there's been points where I've had

Recruiters on my team working on like 45

recks at a time which is a pretty big

you know and and these aren't like

pipeline searches we're talking about

like nuanced individual wrecks that they

may from on top of maybe a pipeline of

like 20 or 30 so they're they could

working on 80 wrecks at a time which is

it certainly that's not the case

currently but I've I've worked in places

and and built places where that has been

the case um when I think about like

recruiter capacity and when I think

about like building and scaling I like

to look at that number and the first

thing that I like to have the business

do is prioritize because

realistically I know that it's really

kind of fun to be like okay we need to

hire like a thousand people people let's

open all a thousand recks at one time

right but like that's not realistic and

that's also going to be a recipe for

failure and so what you have to do is

you have to think about okay I have a

recruiting team the size of X Y and Z I

need to hire a thousand people how are

we going to break this down and looking

at the business what are the you know

top wrecks that are going to be most

important and how do we sort of like

work backwards to achieve those those

things instead of being like yeah let's

just open the floodgates and you know

open a thousand wrecks like not going to

be successful your employer brand is not

going to to look good doing that so

there's a bunch of sort of like negative

connotations that can come with that and

so you have to be really thoughtful

because you only have one chance to do

it and so you've got to do it right um

and you've got to kind of understand how

to do

it so is there ever a time where like

they said okay here's here's a thousand

recks right and you're like and they're

like nope I don't care what you say we

have to fill these thousand recks by you

know six months or whatever it is right

something crazy where you say all right

well then here's my plan I'm going to

need agency help over here I'm going to

need this much more for my team I'm

going to need this tools like do you

actually then lay it out completely in

its

entirety yeah 100% so that that would be

a situation where I would do exactly

that so I would figure out what's the

recruiter capacity realistically without

them burning out and breaking um what's

our you know recruiter coordination

capacity but even more important than

that what's our interviewer capacity

because I think depend to great right

you think all right we'll hire a

thousand people we'll just interview

them whatever well do you want your

salespeople also selling do you want

your engineers also engineering do you

want you know your compliance people

also doing compliancy things like or do

you just want them interviewing because

if you're saying to me you can give 100%

of your time to interviewing then sure

let's open them all up let's let's go

for it but if you're saying I can give

you 20 to 30% of my time to interview in

the week then we're going to have have

to scale back what that looks like so to

me that's like the biggest thing because

otherwise you're going to have folks

interviewing candidates from you know

900 in the morning till 5:00 pm and

we've also done things you I've been a

part of things where we've done uh

interview dates where we've like Sprints

like you've done Sprints right yeah

exactly we put them together done them

on like a a Friday Saturday Saturday

Sunday we brought folks in and you know

you also have to think about how does

that impact candidate experience and the

me message that you're telling

candidates so there's a lot of other

pieces that kind of come into play there

but at the end of the day there have

been situations where it hasn't been

ideal and unfortunately we've just had

to do it but yeah I think there's

there's a lot of pieces that people

don't think about yes so I was talking

about that just the other day again I

was working with a seed funded company

and they're like okay we like you're

only sending us four resumés a week well

I'm like well you guys are like a really

small company and you're telling me you

need to build so I'm trying to be

mindful to time like no open it up I'm

like

okay but so then so of course we open it

up and I'm I'm trying to trying to work

them through that you know there's like

that fine line right especially when

you're not in the org itself and so all

of a sudden within two weeks now I have

people being like hey I can't even

schedule on the hiring manager's

calendar for another three weeks y

exactly now we're in a situation and

you're gonna lose candidates that are

really solid uh and so to me like I I

preach this all the time it's quality

over quantity and it's really thinking

about how we can strategic do that

because let's say you find a candidate

that you know you you really want you

want to push them through but there's no

time for them to interview because the

the folks that are interviewing are

already all booked up well now you're

going to lose talent to a competitor

because they're going to go interview

somewhere else uh and so you have to be

really thoughtful about that stuff

instead of just saying all right a

thousand let's just open a thousand

we'll just go one by one we'll take them

off and we'll be you know good to go

uhhuh you know what's funny is um I

always find that hiring manager is like

well that's exactly why you need passive

candidates because they'll wait they're

not actively looking but what I feel

like they don't understand is the moment

you get a true passive candidate they're

now looking you've now put it into their

mind that there's probably something

really there's cool stuff out there

right so all of a sudden it's like well

wait you said they were they weren't

actively looking well they weren't

yesterday but they are today certainly

and build and building a talent

community and and building pipelines

like super important but you also have a

lot of times where you have really Niche

roles and you're not going to build a

pipeline for every single bespoke role

that you have so certain things you can

absolutely build pipeline for so call it

like you know PMS designers Engineers

you know maybe analysts whatever the the

you know large populations might be uh

but then there's going to be these sort

of like nuanced roles whether it's

creative roles or or other things where

you know you're going to know who the

top 10 candidates are and there may not

be more than 10 people that you even

want to go after for that role um and so

it doesn't even matter if you pipeline

or not because the top talent is those

10 people and you have to think about

strategically how are we going to

attract and entice those 10 people to

engage with us yeah oh my gosh it's own

separate scaling problem so I I can't

believe we're already coming up up on

time right now so but I have I I'm like

oh my God geez I got to keep track of

this um so here I I have to ask this

question how do you balance though

trying to do something really quickly

trying to scale fast because you you're

being Innovative you got to get the

market first you got to do all of these

things where we talk about going back to

the business how do you have a fine line

between holding strong on you know make

sure that org's okay making sure

everyone's getting onboarded properly

like all the other stuff that comes

along with hiring that I think a lot of

people don't think

about so balancing like that and speed

is that your ask yes yeah it's it's

tough on you know I don't think that

there's like a perfect science to that I

have it cracked perfectly uh but I I do

think that one of the best ways to make

sure that you can do that is going back

to like what I talked about with

interviewer capacity it's looking at the

infrastructure that you have to bring

these people into and are you going to

be able to bring them into a place where

they're going to be set up for Success

um and if not what are the areas that we

need to beef up so are there trainings

that we need to be working on is there

an onboarding uh you know structure set

up how are we thinking about uh 30 60

90day plans you know all sorts of things

like this where it doesn't even I mean

it depends how big the company that

you're scaling is if there's an HR

function already or not if there is sort

of a people partner function there's got

to be a really tight relationship

between between recruiting and that

people partner function um and if there

isn't then recruiting is going to have

to really think about some of those

things and start to think about how do

we build that infrastructure to set

these people up for success and

sometimes that means like taking a beat

and being able to sort of like build

that to to to be successful and I think

at the end of the day like I said

showing through the data why that's

important you will absolutely get the

buyin from senior leaders as long as you

start to bring in the most important

hires first so that the progress can

start to begin and then you can start to

kind of like scale from there yeah it's

almost like giving the business a little

time to breathe you guys breathe you

keep doing what you need to do and now

we're going to move this other part um

but I would imagine hiring managers or

or different functions are kind of like

fighting they're like probably pulling

recruiting no mine's more important

yours is more important like do you find

yourself being a like a mediator

sometimes oh for sure you you want to

kind of be able to sometimes just like

you might get like a he said she said

sort of a thing and you've got to get

everybody in the same room and have

conversation uh to me I think about it

through the lens of asking questions I

think you tend to get a lot more

information that way so what questions

can I ask to kind of get folks to figure

things out you know on their own and and

start to kind of like unwind um and then

I can kind of jump in from there and be

like you know what that that totally

makes sense let's you know let's run

with that uh but yeah sometimes

recruiting I'm sure folks have said this

before it's a lot of like hurting cats a

lot of like trying to get everybody's

message across and who's doing what and

who said this and just kind of like

getting everybody United to like

understand how we're gonna move

forward I actually know a uh I have a

recruiting friend that I've known for a

really long time actually her title is

hurting cats yeah it's totally true you

know and uh it's it's definitely one of

those things where it's like you know

you you it's part of the job being able

to to kind of like communicate and kind

of piece the threats to together for

everybody that sort of kind of comes

with the

territory my God I love it so Amy I I I

got to end it I'm sorry um I first I I

want to know your broke to boss tip and

also I'm just gonna fullblown and ask

you live I feel like this is a webinar I

feel like this is something where people

are gonna they were gonna have so many

questions I think we could have kept

digging and we can have like a good 45

minutes chat on this are you in yeah

let's do it okay put you on the spot all

right what's your broke to boss tip

what's the main thing one person one

thing they got out of

I I I think the biggest thing is lead

with data uh be strategic and I know

this is more than one thing but I'm I'm

giving you a couple step step here like

with data be strategic uh and really

start to build trust and build

relationships because at the end of the

day that's going to be really what helps

you and and also process driven uh we

didn't really get into that we didn't

really have time but I think building

really strong recruiting process that

you can kind of Bank on is going to it's

just like working in a restaurant

restaurants that are successful have

really good systems they have really

good process in place same thing with

recruiting really good systems really

good process in place tends to make you

successful uh and and really think about

uh that diversity think about the

structure that you're building and make

sure that you're you're filling the

bucket with Talent that's going to be

sustainable for the long term yes I love

it Amy thank you so much remember you

guys can also watch this on the

millionaire recruiter YouTube uh but

thanks we'll see you next year Tu day

take care

byebye