Takeover Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney: All right, fun. We are here again for another episode. This one is gonna be how to hire and go with your gut. Holy moly. That's a lot. So thank you for always listening. And, you know, we're here to vent to give advice and to share, you know, some stories, right? Um, so make sure that you are also enjoying listening and you send it to your friends. So thanks so much.

Taylor Bradley: And don't forget to listen to my broke to boss tip at the end of the episode, there's some good stuff for there for you guys there. And, um, I really hope you find value in it. I know I do.

Brianna Rooney: I

Taylor Bradley: Do. I might be a little biased, but I know I do.

Brianna Rooney: Why aren't we just here for each other? exactly.

Taylor Bradley: Exactly. We didn't need to do a whole podcast just to chat with each other. No, I, I love the feedback we've gotten and how helpful it's been for some people. So yeah.

Brianna Rooney: It's I love it. And I was even, uh, I was talking to a friend of mine who was listening and they're like, oh my God. Like, this was like from a lifer recruiter. And they're like, oh, I love it. You just venting it just like, sometimes you just need to, because like, I can't talk to my, my husband. Like he doesn't just, he doesn't understand.

Taylor Bradley: Exactly

Brianna Rooney: Like I gotcha.

Taylor Bradley: Well, and we've all talked about that too. Like nobody understands recruiting really. And our family members, husband, spouses, whatever, um, wives may be like, wait, what is it that you do for a living? Yeah. You know? And, um, you know, I feel like, which I love this, by the way. I think it's kind of cute that my son, I think he views my job as like philanthropy. He's like, mommy helps find people jobs. And I'm like, I love it, buddy. Tell everybody that I love that that's the spread it that's, that's exactly how, you know, I, I had to make him understand what it is that I do for a living. You know what I mean? But, um, especially

Brianna Rooney: Cuz he is at five, right? So it's like, right, right. I get, I get a little buttered because uh, my kid's parents is a, is a chef. So like he gets invited. So for example, today at school he gets invited to cook for them. So I'm like, wait, can I come in and tell you what I do? do you gonna get it? They're gonna be like, what, what is it? Me food? Yeah. I'll give you goldfish.

Taylor Bradley: Where's the snacks. That's what they're gonna ask you. Where's the snacks at? I don't know. I don't know if it's like this for you, but I'm the, I'm the snacker. Like I've got them in my purse. They always come. Even if dad's right there, they come to my purse. It's like the Mary Poppins bag. There's like snacks, toy cars, all kinds of in there.

Speaker 3: Welcome to talent takeover

Taylor Bradley: Unfiltered.

Speaker 3: When it comes to working hard and keeping it real. We know our, self care, happiness, inner peace and time. I'm Brianna Rooney. And this is Taylor Bradley. Hey y'all and we have thrived in chaos and turned it into in art form. So Taylor, what are we doing here today?

Taylor Bradley: We're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to a long underrated industry. That's full of quote unquote experts.

Speaker 3: All right. Well then let's take this show to the road.

Brianna Rooney: So going with your gut higher, first of all, you go, I feel like you gotta go your gut and everything you do, but how to hire woo. This is a biggie. So talk to us, cause I know you have some, some battle stories, but talk to us when, when you're has your gut ever been wrong?

Taylor Bradley: Well, I would love to say no and lie to you, but you guys know I'm a straight shooter. So, um, my gut has been wrong before. Um, and it's a really weird feeling. I know that you're the same Brianna. We kinda always go with our gut. And so it's like, it, it gives me this weird. I can't even put it into words, but I'm sure EV listeners understand this weird feeling. When you go with your gut with such conviction through most things, through most decisions that you make and then it ends up being just like a huge, just bummer. I actually had a, a client and I'll love to tell you guys this story. We have a client, um, who hired, went with this gut, but really great about this person. Um, he was trying to handle hiring on his own. So I'd never done it before.

Taylor Bradley: He's got a huge role within the organization and recruiting because it's not, again, super respected, kind of lumped in there with everything that he's responsible for. And um, he made a really bad hire and it was, it was for a very, um, very basic position. And when I say basic, it means like there was not a lot of requirements. Didn't require a lot of experience. He very much, it was an entry level role. He was gonna allow somebody to grow into it. And so it really messed him up that it was a bad hire. Um, because I think the tasks were basic. The interview was great though, but he was like, I think I just went with personality and more of liking them. That's

Brianna Rooney: So easy to do so

Taylor Bradley: Easy. So easy.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. Oh my God.

Taylor Bradley: But then it kind of like screwed him up a little bit after that, like kind of made him doubt himself and all that, which is I relate to that's the feeling that I'm talking about, where you like question everything because you went with such conviction with your gut and then it just was wrong, you know? Well, I,

Brianna Rooney: I think that's the exception and it's not the rule.

Taylor Bradley: Totally, totally. But you said, have you ever, and I'm like, yeah, I have. And then I gave you that was a, that was actually a few weeks ago. So I mean, I think the best way of thinking about your gut instinct is to see it as a peer or coworker that you respect. If you ask them for their opinion, you'd trust it. But you'd also factor in your own experience and thought processes into the equation. Bias obviously is inherent in everyone's thought process, but it's up to you to flag these by questioning your decisions and the reasons behind them.

Brianna Rooney: Yep. Love that. So, I mean, um, we talk about unconscious bias and obviously that's its own like separate thing, but sometimes you actually have conscious biases, you know? So I can tell you, you know, you bring me in a, a hardworking woman, a single mom, like I'm like, bam, I wanna talk to you, like, please let me help you. Let me talk to you, let me mentor you. Like I'm all over that. And so sometimes your gut does get clouded based on your own biases, whether they're conscious or not.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. Well, and, and you know, what I love about you and I Breen is that like, we have a dynamic where yeah. Okay, well hold my beer. Okay. Okay. But no, we're, we're not really, we're not really that arrogant guys, but no, it's just that we, I feel like we play off each other's strengths and weaknesses. I know that there have been people that I've had a gut feeling about where you were like, no, and then there's people that you have a gut feeling about and I'm like, they're amazing. You know? And so I love that, that we're able to like kind of a yin and yang see each see through that for each other. Um, but going back to, you know, unconscious and conscious bias, um, gut instinct is right on the border between conscious and unconscious thought. Mm-hmm, , it's the instinct, it's a survival MEChA mechanism. That's designed to let you make quick decisions without having to overthink the issues at hand. And so, um, I, I'm kind of a fan of it. I'm a fan of going with my gut. You know, I, I know that we do this for a living, but I also have had enough experiences where I can pick up on things as have you. I mean, our whole entire jobs have been to interview people.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah.

Taylor Bradley: Like really, like, I, I dunno why I got chills about that by the way.

Brianna Rooney: I wish I could hear your chills

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. But I mean, that's, it's kind of crazy when you think about how many people you've probably talked to in your life mm-hmm through interviews. And then at this point where you feel like your gut, like where it can go for you where it it's like, you know, with such conviction, like this person in one conversation,

Brianna Rooney: You know, like yeah, for sure. Well, so I, I'm gonna talk about at a, about a time that like where the data was against my gut on this one. Ooh. So, um, so I had someone come in and at the time it was a majority rules decision. Um, that's how, like, we were rolling with that. So we had this recruiter come in and they talked to like five of us and I just was not a fan. I couldn't see it on paper. Super smart, really well educated. Um, had been, you know, it hadn't been a recruiter before, cuz I used to never hire recruiters with experience. I loved to train them, hence why I have diversity. But um, so we were like, okay, you know, this person has it. They have connections in the engineering world. This, they almost used to be an engineer, like all of these things. Right. And I'm like, okay, whatever. I don't see it. So you guys out, you outro me. Like they even out ruled me. So I was like, cool. Hired him. Oh boy. that was in my opinion, the worst hire in the universe stayed for a while. Oh

Taylor Bradley: Man. A

Brianna Rooney: show a, show a show. And that was that moment. I'm like, God, it, I told you guys and it was like, well, why aren't you, why didn't you overrule? As you could have? I'm like, well, I'm trying to be a team player. you know, but like my gut told me no. And like I'll, I'll never forget that because it's like, you just don't know, like we talk about how you can, like, you know, essentially judge someone on paper. Right. And then you judge someone in interview. Cause that's what you're doing. Right. You're essentially judging them. Like I hate that word, but um, you know, you're working it through and you're just like, I just don't see it. And I think it, it comes to when we're doing debriefs and interviews and that's again like a whole other subject, but it's like gut does come into play on that. Like you can put your scorecards in there. You can put like, you know what hard skills they got, but like soft skills too soft skills are just so important. And it was the soft skills that I just didn't see.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. So I would love to ask you, like whenever you've been interviewing somebody and been a moment where you're like, okay, my gut just tells me, no, this is a no, is there a specific question or answer or something? Cause I know I have one. Right. Mm-hmm but is there a specific question or answer that somebody can give you that is just like it it's a red flag for your gut?

Brianna Rooney: Uh, yes. Um, when you ask, like what's, what's your worst trait, what's the worst thing about you? What's something that you wish you could change. Like you know that one's asked a lot, right? Yeah. I used to ask that a lot. I don't ask that too much anymore. Cause now I just think it's everyone's full of when they answer that anyways. But um, totally. I love, I love when they're like, well I'm a perfectionist liar. like, you're trying to change your correctionist. I love that.

Taylor Bradley: But no, but I'm just laughing at the perfectionist. Like, are you, are you mocking me right now? Are

Brianna Rooney: You quoting me?

Taylor Bradley: Like what

Brianna Rooney: Is this?

Taylor Bradley: No, but I mean, yeah, no, I, I don't like that quote, like what are your biggest strengths? What are your weaknesses? Oh, I'm a perfectionist. And I'm working to, you know, not be, it's like, no, you're not, no you're full of. Like exactly what you said.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. Uh, spin that. Like if you're a perfectionist own it and say, why it's great. Like, why is this a great thing about you? Why is it not a negative? You know? Cause we, we view it as a negative, right. For the most part. Yeah.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. Well, and then also it can drive. I drive myself crazy by being a perfectionist. Like let's, let's be real. And I love that. Like we encourage that in our interview process here at talent perch and even in our process for diversity, we definitely encourage like tell us the truth, the real, real spit. I don't wanna hear that. You're a perfectionist. And then how amazing it is. It's like, that's something that as you know, we've talked about, I need to work on like not, everything's gonna be perfect all the time. Mm-hmm and it's just, it's a product of the way that I grew up. But it's, it's something that it's not, I don't necessarily look at that. Like that's super positive trait these days, you know?

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. I, no, I, I don't think so. So I think what I was getting at is just like, like you said, be real. Like I just wanna, I want to hear who you are. I want, uh, authenticity to come through, right? Yeah. Like that's like, that's how we do it now. Here's the problem. Like let's go back to gut is um, when someone within like the first two minutes, they're just totally speaking to my love language, you know, I'm like, go on, go on like, yes. You know, any, anyone that you can just tell has like recruiter DNA inside them within like a couple minutes. I like immediately like sit back in my chair. I forget that it's an interview. I'm just shooting the. I'm like, you know, and then I mess up. Right?

Taylor Bradley: No, it's like, again, are you mocking? Is this us? Because this was our interview process where, I mean, the stuff we, we talked about,

Taylor Bradley: The stuff we talked about day one interview one was like deep stuff. But um, you know, I think, again, going back to, we've done this, this is our, our literal, literally our careers we've made careers out of this. So I think we can pick up on vibes and, and really go with our gut in that aspect. But going back to, you know, one of the things that sticks out to me as far as like what gives a red flag in my gut is if somebody, as they're going through the interview process, say they're going through it and they start with me and then they with you, and this is for our company and this is all hypothetical. If they change their salary based on who they're talking to their salary requirements. So we, of course, don't ask, you know, what's your current salary, but you wanna know what their expectations are, their salary expectations for the role that you're considering them for. So if that number continues to get higher and higher and higher dependent upon the person that they talk to, or just, you know, throughout the interview cycle, that is a huge red flag to me.

Brianna Rooney: Oh yeah, for sure. Okay. So for me, I know we've had this discussion, um, for me, because I've been an agency recruiter for so long, I'm used to candidates lying to us all day long. So I'm used to a candidate telling me one thing in the first conversation, something different in third conversation. And of course something different. Be all of a sudden they got promoted in the sixth conversation, you know? So like that stuff it's like all day long. So when people do it to us, I kind of just roll my eyes on that. I'm like, yeah, been there, right? Like, like candidates lie. That's just what it is. Yeah. And sometimes you don't blame them cuz they're talking salary and they can't negotiate for themselves, which again is why a recruiter exists. But you know, it's, I don't know. I, I, I go back and forth on that.

Taylor Bradley: I think it's more about being consistent, right? Like what are your salary? What are your salary expectations? So if they talk to me and they tell me again, hypothetically, I want 90 K and then it's like, you know, we're we kind of have that set in our mind and this even applies to our clients as well. Totally. Like when we recruit for our clients and then they go and they talk to you, or if we think about it, this from a client perspective, they go and we obviously do the intake with the hiring manager. We screen the candidate, we provide our notes to the hiring manager. When we submit them kind of the range that this person's looking for, everything. Then they go throughout the interview process, get to the very end and have told the hiring manager a completely different salary. And it's like significantly higher than what they initially told us. Now the one caveat I do have to that is if the role changes, if they learn more and more about the role and it's actually a bigger role, but I'm not talking about in those cases, I'm talking about in the cases where it's like, be just be consistent, whatever it is that you're requiring as far salary be consistent throughout the interview process or that's a huge red flag.

Brianna Rooney: No. Yeah. I totally agree. Um, and I think it's embarrassing. I think that's what recruiters off is. Cuz like, okay, you just embarrassed me. I've actually had, on the other side, someone say a lower salary to the hiring manager. So course like being an agency recruiter, you're charging a percentage of a salary. So they're like recruiter just upcharging me salary. And I'm like, I swear to God have my notes right here, you know? Right. And it's like, yeah, it's, it's in it's integrity, integrity. And unfortunately like it goes back to consistency as well. But I feel like they just honestly don't remember what they told you, but again it's because they're just lying. So, so take notes.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah,

Brianna Rooney: Exactly. That's why we always take notes. Recruiters take notes at all time. I was actually just talking about this. Uh, I think yesterday, you know, like I like to think I have a memory of an elephant and then all of a sudden, like all this goes into your lap and you're like, and now the memory of a goldfish. Yeah. So thank God for my notes. And yes, I have a notepad on my legs right now.

Taylor Bradley: no, I mean we live and die by notes, but I've, I've always interviewed like when I've been interviewing for a job, I take notes. I know what salary I told them. I think that's

Brianna Rooney: Oh, there you go. That, oh, that's really powerful. That's an episode. That's a good one. Ooh that's

Taylor Bradley: And, and we, we actually have that in our training guys, which is available in diversity. So kind of what you need to do and how you need to prepare for an interview. Um, yeah, but really just going back to hiring with your gut, going with your gut, I feel like that's applicable on hiring. That's applicable on the candidate side. If something feels off, it probably is.

Brianna Rooney: Ooh, I know we're running outta time. I have to tell one story because this, I just, I, I, I love what this, the recruiter did. It was our recruiter, so yes, of course I'm biased. But so there was this candidate and the client kind of flagged something that the candidate did. So they, the, the candidate emailed the company to the wrong company. So literally he like was shooting the with a friend, sent it to the company. Now, luckily that particular leader is like, cool as. Like he like doesn't really care about a lot of things. Like he's just, you know, just a funny dude laid back. And he was like, Hey, just wanna flag this just but like, I thought it was weird, although like, we're cool, we're still gonna move forward with this person. So we're like, okay, God, that was strange.

Brianna Rooney: Then that same candidate text our recruiter late at night, something very racey. And she was like, Uhuh, two strikes we're out. And so she went to the company, told on him and said, I'm pulling him from, from the interview. Like I don't like, you guys can do what you want, but I think this person needs to be uphold and sure. Wow. The company was so happy with that, with that recruiter and was just like, cool. Yeah. Like my gut was telling me that he was a little off. Right. And she's like for sure, a hundred percent. So that goes to like the initial gut reaction. But they still, you know, because it's a hard market, they still gave the person a chance, but then bam, another one come on. There's two red

Taylor Bradley: Flags. Right, right. No, I love that story. Actually. The integrity piece of it. And then it's just, it's like, you know, that the company gave the candidate grace, cuz that also doesn't happen. But then the, the racy text is like, okay, you need to stay away from your phone when you're late at night drinking the wine or whatever it is that's happening over there. Just something is clearly

Brianna Rooney: Like,

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. Block your recruiter's number. I don't know. But that's like, those mistakes to me is like too, too many. And they seem to be, I don't know, it's a little

Brianna Rooney: Fishy, but it's. Yeah. And I, and I don't think a lot of the recruiters would have actually told the client. And so I was super thrilled. I'm like, totally good. Thank you. This is exactly what we do. We change the way the world views recruiting. You do it through integrity.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. And you're not just, I mean, not just about as per our last episode, you know, when to walk away from bad business, we're not, recruiters are not all about just chasing money. That's truly not it. We have to love people to even do what we do for a living.

Brianna Rooney: Agreed. No, totally agree. Okay. Well unfortunately God, we are already over time again. That was a quick one. so thank you all for listening. And I know, uh, go ahead and hit us with this, uh, broke to boss tip of the week.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. Broke to boss tip of the week is just regardless of what this situation is, remember it's your responsibility to see the full picture. So gut feeling can help you get there, but remember to factor in outside influences your own experience and where the feeling is coming from. From there, you can make it a informed decision. So like always go with your gut, but then you also need to factor in other influences, like

Brianna Rooney: A gut check. You need a gut

Taylor Bradley: Check. Yes. Gut check. There we go. Mic drop. Love that gut check. I think I just gave you the definition of gut check and you summarized it for me. So guys broke to boss tip of the week. Gut check.

Brianna Rooney: Love it. All right. Don't forget. You know, we love, we love doing these episodes. You gotta subscribe, um, in the email and also join our email list. Everything is in the show notes. So we are here every Tuesday

Taylor Bradley: And reach out to us on LinkedIn, individually through any of our pages. We'd love to hear from y'all.

Brianna Rooney: Yep. We love it. You inspire us. See you next week. Yeah.

Taylor Bradley: Thanks y'all or

Brianna Rooney: Hear you next week.

Speaker 4: .