Takeover Unfiltered

welcome to Talent takeover unfiltered

when it comes to working hard and

keeping it real we know our [ __ ]

self-care happiness inner peace and time

I'm Brianna Rooney and this is Taylor

Bradley hey y'all and we have thrived in

chaos and turn it into an art form so

Taylor what are we doing here today

we're here to give you a raw under the

hood view of all things recruiting and

finally give credit where credit is due

to a long underrated industry that's

full of quote unquote experts all right

well then let's take this show to the

road hello welcome to Talent takeover

unfiltered so I'm super excited to

welcome Crystal hun and of course Taylor

Bradley um we are talking about how to

build your recruiting and ta career with

data Crystal how you doing this morning

I'm doing great super excited to talk

about numbers early in the

morning yes it was sexy

right but I like to wake up too yes

iller how are you doing good good how

are you pretty pretty awesome uh yeah no

it's definitely early uh I actually had

the pleasure of talking to Crystal a

couple of days ago and like immediately

I was like can you please come on our

podcast on Wednesday it was that on that

so so so no prep uh but we were talking

about data and um you know data driven

has been like such this Hot Topic data

driven recruiting for like a little

while and I still it's like first of all

what is that is anyone really going to

dig and say what kind of data we're

talking about in

recruiting I don't know anyone vibing me

on this

tor uh well I mean I'm curious to hear

Crystal's thoughts this is this is your

subject so what do you think about data

and recruiting definitely so I feel like

it when Brianna and I talked we we

obviously Hint it off which was

wonderful uh and so you know I think

when you think of data or like it's kind

of like the buz like there's so many

buzzwords that happen around recruiting

and people I think are just like this is

the this is the next thing and it's

almost like you're trying to cook

spaghetti and see if you can cook it to

the right Al Dente and then you just

kind of like stick it at the wall and

you're like actually this doesn't work

or like maybe this actually does work

and so I think people are still trying

to find that sweet spot of what that

actually is and I think for us in the

field we are just kind of like shifting

years where we're not trying to just be

exit uors but we're trying to really be

thoughtful of like how we approach

things and so how do we actually look at

data what does it actually mean and I

think it's so easy to go down this

Rabbit Hole of like okay so we're

looking at all this data we want to see

top of funnel we want to see like how

many hirers get look at our velocity

model and then you kind of forget to

humanize the data a little bit too I

think and then you just kind of like

have to take a step back to actually see

like how does this service meet and like

how does this service what I'm trying to

accomplish and I think that's where the

beauty of it also lies in trying to get

that perfectly cooked pasta yeah I'm

hungry I don't I think that's why I

reference food yeah oh I love that we're

digging into this because you know

oftentimes and even having just hired

for a recruiter role myself oftentimes

like everybody's coached to speak about

data in the interview process like make

sure you mention data make sure but it's

like what data and what is the

significance of the data and and why is

it important it's just one those things

that we are like told and coached to

talk about or to stress how important it

is but do we really understand how

important important it is and what is

the data that we're looking at and what

what purpose does it serve knowing this

data you know so I'm really excited to

hear like what data you track and how

you use it in your process and um you

know what the feedback is on that is it

is it a something that is bought you

know your hiring managers are bought

into like really just curious to hear

how you use data yeah so I think there's

a variety of ways that you can news data

so like one example that I think is

super helpful if you're like um you know

a recruiter that's like working on a

role and you're dealing with some

feedback maybe from like hiring managers

or stakeholders where they're saying

like you know I'm not happy with the

pipeline I'm not seeing enough people I

feel like people's go-to is always like

I I want to see the world and I want to

see like everyone and and their mothers

and and you know um everything that just

kind of allows them to just have

visibility so I think that is one of the

key takeaways is that they want to

understand what is actually happened so

how do you kind of look and articulate

what exactly you're dealing with because

you're on the ground and they're not so

how do you get them to kind of see your

point of view and give them perspective

so I think that's really like the key

takeaway is being able to come through

and help you understand what that

actually means and then it's peeling

back the layers of being like okay so

you want to see top of funnel but like

why do you want to see top of funnel

increase so much when I'm like seeing

that I'm reaching out to 100 some people

per day maybe and then I'm only getting

maybe like two responses throughout the

week but like they're not seeing that

effort being made and so because you're

not giving them the clarity or context I

think that is where a lot of Disconnect

happen and so how do you then use the

data to be able to show them hey I

reached out to like 500 people this week

only two responded like I'm doing the

job I'm doing my work I'm going out

there and trying to like um Market this

role and like find a really great talent

for you but there's only so much I can

do and so that's maybe why you're not

seeing this and maybe why you're

thinking I want to see a funnel so I

think that you know it's not even um a

thing of just top of funnel looking at

data in a certain way I think it's more

like what is the core reason they're

saying what they're saying so like how

do you read between the lines like what

is the The Benchmark that you're trying

to accomplish and then how do you help

mitigate the miscommunication that's

also there to help you influence and

drive the decision that you're actually

trying to to do

yeah I was just going to say one of my

favorite ways to use data has always

been to show hiring managers or

leadership where the bottlenecks are

like I think that's one of the most

powerful way ways that I've used data

but um I'm curious to know Crystal how

would you approach how would you

approach a situation if how do you get

them to see the value in your data if

you're able to show them like hey you

know I'm building out this top of the

frun of these 100 candidates I need

somebody to review them or it's like

here's where the bottlenecks are how do

you get leadership to see the value in

the data that you're

providing no that's a great question so

I think it's part of the Journey of

building trust with your stakehold right

so like I think that's why you use data

as this supplemental tool to be able to

help catapult yourself into this

wonderful relationship because I think

for us being on the grounds like again

we're so used to this we do this as a

living we've like been around the block

in multiple situations or environments

where like we've come across these World

block and us just saying it to New

stakeholders I think it's not enough

right and so when you look at the data

and you're trying to show the value of

it I think there's multiple ways that

you can look at it so you can look at

other data that has come through in the

past of like other roles that you may

have worked on and then you can kind of

work so if it took 200 screens to get to

like two highes or like three highes

then like let's work back how do we

improve this like it's always about

looking at what you can what you can

work towards and better yourself with

and then I think that also helps you

become a better recruiter

too so how do you suggest a as we're

like trying to go through our careers

how um what we talked about like you

have talk about data in interviews for

example but how are you actually

building your career with data like how

like how would that work um like just

with yourself but also like how we even

put that on like a resume even like I

guess those are like two kind of

different tangents yeah I wonder if it

that's a great question um I think one

of the important things to knowe when

you are building and growing yourself

within this field and looking at data is

the impact that you made with it so so

for example if you're looking at data

differance strategies how methodical can

you be in terms of what you used how you

approached it and then what outcome they

served for you so did you use data

driven strategies to um increase

conversion rates by x% or you know make

x amount of higher in x amount of time

so I think when you are digging into and

writing your little bullet points on

your resume so that you can stand out I

I think you can look at it in those two

ways where it's like what did you do in

terms of data to increase conversion um

top of funnel or like uh response rates

I think is obviously key if you're in a

sourcing role and you're kind of F cyal

and you want to showcase that you have

strong messaging um I think you can also

look at it from a sense of like I um

decrease the time that it actually takes

to make a Higher by x% and so I think

you can show data in your metric and

value of like what you've been able to

accomplish but then also on the flip

side like we talked

about describing or articulating that

story of how you use data to influence

those business decisions to overcome

maybe like working with a difficult

hiring manager or you know building that

great relationship along the

way I love that I love that like that

that could actually be an episode just

by itself on how to even write the

resume to show

mebe um because it's like you really

have to go through I mean like I even

think about um when you hear people oh

great we want to hire just F five people

you know it's it's a seed startup all

those things like okay great um so let's

talk through I'm going to give you three

to six rums he's like well can you give

me more I'm like okay let's say you want

to talk to all six can you give me six

hours at least a week at least to talk

to them and then you know it's like and

then you're starting to work backwards

and they honestly don't even get it like

they're just like no I need all of these

people for this particular reason you

know to convert and it's so interesting

to kind of just lay really lay it out

there I mean and that's just like on a

small scale right it's so interesting

that you also bring that up because like

I was actually talking to another ta

professional the other day and they were

saying how they were complaining or like

a stakeholder was complaining to them

saying that they weren't seeing enough

candidate and little and they were you

know blaming recruiting Because I think

we're always the stepchild of the people

function and so we it's kind of always

easy to play um and so you know they

were saying how you know the the

stakeholder was complaining to them

blaming recruiting they wasn't happy

with their recruiting partner but little

did they know that like the the reality

was that they were declining all of the

interviews that entire week because they

were quote unquote busy and then that

was delaying the process so like you

know it's one of those things where how

do you then like create and like give

visibility and then educate stakeholders

like okay this is actually What's happen

and then it just only helps you instead

of putting you on the spotlight because

you are that you know step Golden Child

that you're trying to also

be a step you feel that way too they

heard don't you also feel like

recruiting the little bit of like you're

this little step like you're kind of

like the black sheep of things and then

like you know yeah forever that's Ting

it lightly to how we've described it on

this podcast

historically no we we talk about that a

lot that I you know we talk about

Crystal how it you know recruiting never

got the respect it deserved until what

was it like 2021 and then we had a good

year like one year one where maybe a

year and a half maybe you're not I mean

and it was like then it's back right

back to where we are where we started

you know where recruiters and ta

professionals are like the first ones to

be let go I mean we all see it in this

market right now like it's happening

every single day till there's layoffs so

you know it's how do we get them to see

the value in recruiting which is why I

asked the question of like if if your

key stakeholders don't value data how do

you get them bought into it if they

don't value they don't care you could

show them the data they don't care and

and that's where you know I've been

asked that question I've been in that

experience um myself personally and I my

belief on it is that if they're not

bought into it and they don't see the

value in it at the top down we're

talking about the highest levels down I

think think it makes the recruiter's job

pretty challenging for so many reasons

but it makes the data a moot point I

mean if they don't care about the data I

mean that's obviously indicative of a

ton of other things with the

organization if they don't care about

the Ki experience the data all of the

things the data shows you which is like

the brand the candid all these different

things um I'm just I didn't have an

answer for them and my own experience

was like if you can try to show it to

them in spreadsheets you can try to put

it in a PowerPoint present like there's

all these different ways that you could

try to show it to them but if they

ultimately don't care you're kind of

trying to fight a losing battle and so

that's where my comment to them was like

more so just pick and choose your

battles and you know but be keep all

this data for yourself because if it

ever comes back like what you were

saying Crystal about well you've

declined all the invites for the

interviews so if it comes back to where

a recruiter is getting reprimanded or in

trouble or whatever the case is hands

slapped for not filling a role at least

they have the data and the metrics and

are able to show well here's what I

accomplished and win here's where you

know the invites you decline they're at

least able to tell their story and it

backs up and validates you know the the

work that they've done on the role not

just like oh well you failed because you

didn't get this hire the data will help

you make your case if it ever comes to a

situation where you're getting in

trouble for the role not being filled

for circumstances that are outside of

your control exactly the data is also

like your receipt right yeah it's um

it's exactly what's going to help you

later on and it's so funny that you

bring that up because there was one

moment where I was actually working on a

design role or a product role yes it was

a product role and we just were not

finding the right candidates apparently

that were going through the process and

I was trying to show the data and I

created this wonderful spreadsheet and I

love color coding I was like all right

this is wonderful I'm going to present

this I started presenting it because we

were missing all the benchmarks I

highlight like I highlighted all of the

conversion rates of where we were

missing like things and like what my

suggestion were so that we can kind of

like get this uh get the ball rolling a

little bit more and she honestly could

care less and I was like well you know

what I am proud still that I SP like a

few hours on this document because now

when we kind of go back to it at least I

tried something and like I tried to find

Solutions this was what it was but like

you said it's like almost it felt like a

losing battle where you just didn't care

and sometimes you do have to pick a

choose like okay so I wanted to show you

the data this was my kind of Pale marage

let's then go back to the drawing board

to see like what what is it that you

actually want now like what are you

truly unhappy is it that you just don't

want to partner with or like is it

because you you know you never know um

or is it the fact that you just truly

want to see everyone Under the Sun and

then I think that in our role kind of

goes back to the beginning of sometimes

you just have to like manipulate things

a little bit show them great candidates

show them not the great candidates and

being like make your pick kind of deal

so you go back to basics on that one too

sometimes yeah well that that's kind of

like a fomo effect like I well like it's

like you're you're missing out so um I'm

dating right now but like that's kind of

like like like on the app so it's like

well I don't want to turn it off because

what if exactly oh you know and it it it

is kind of silly where it's like what is

this going to be like in a like a

NeverEnding Story and like that you're

not actually going to then hire and

you're not going to then get this

project done and then you're not hit

those numbers it all again goes

trickling back to the data but okay I'm

going to going to push back on this data

thing because here's what I've noticed I

would love to hear your thoughts data

matters when things aren't going well so

how do we still care about data when

it's going really well and we like you

talked about we want to show how we're

getting better and better and better but

you realize like they only ask for data

and you're really only showing it when

it's not

working yeah so I think it's one one of

those things

where consistent right it um I think for

us in recruiting when you're looking at

data there's always like the basic

Benchmark and um it's one of those

things where uh you

know you can also leverage like your ATS

systems right and I think that's why you

have um things in place looking at data

Integrity so that you can continuously

um um have have it up your Helm if you

really need to pull right so you can do

it on um I think if you meet with your

hiring managers or stakeholders weekly

or you have like weekly Talent meetings

I think it's always important to put at

least five minutes off to the side being

like okay this is the health of how

we're benchmarking um or how we're

trending in terms of like our

conversions um you know we're above

Market or like we're above the the

industry or like we're a little bit

below maybe one of the next topics that

we do in the next meeting meeting is

talk about like our email messaging

strategies or like you know let's let's

do this so like at least then you can

also add value to your actual meetings

too and like have a little bit of meet

along the way um but I think once you

use it as or like not necessarily think

of data as like I only want to do it or

I only want to pull it when I really

need it I think that's when you start

separating or like putting a hierarchy

fun data and the relationship that you

have with it when it's not going to go

away right it's constantly there and so

that's what I think you know we fall

prey to the fact that you know people

only want to see the data and you're

scrambling for it that's what you don't

want to do when things are going you

know maybe not as well as you really

want them to and so I think when you

start approaching data as like you know

the little like flavor water packet that

just help you and you know keep you

hydrated along the way with electrolyte

um I think when you constantly look to

me I love

it see exactly so like you use it as a

supplemental method and I think that

when you start you know not necessarily

fighting it but you use it as a weapon

or like you know in your little toolkit

as like a cheap code I think that is

what's going to help yeah so you brought

up something at the very beginning of

this conversation that really resonated

with me was like a light bulb moment

that I had recently whenever I was

entering re-entering the job

market is I had used data always as

we've talked about in this entire

conversation just to tell a story about

the recruitment life cycle but I'd never

used it to track like accomplishments or

achievements of my own Beyond like what

you need to provide in like an executive

summary to a a manager or a qbr or

something like that but it wasn't until

I re-entered you know the job market was

looking for a new role I'm like that's

that's what you need to have on there I

mean that's a feedback I got from

multiple people on my resume is like you

need to have those key achievements and

so I had a shift in my way of thinking

of because I just haven't had to really

do this before you know and it was again

very humbling moment for me but I was

like I need to start keeping track of

this key accomplishments and

achievements at every single role just

like my own running data list of what

I've accomplished you know if I

successfully hired you know a CFO in 18

days well that tells us story and I need

to just keep track of that versus like a

you know what have you done for me

lately and that's what I've always done

is just like that's and then on to the

next one and on to the next but I've

never kept a running list for myself

that's like a document that I

continuously update for each company not

just in addition to your resume because

I think this is where it's going to go

that's what the data helps with is your

resume but still just having those that

you can refer back to even whenever

you're you know interviewing and being

asked those questions about like what

was the most notable achievement you had

at ex company you you know it's just

that point of that data that you have

right there accessible and it should be

a running list that you're just

continuously updating as you achieve

Milestones or or what you feel are great

things at your in your roles at your

company um and so I've you like you've

shifted my perspective on that of like

man I was like I don't have that data

when I was trying to put together my

resume I'm like trying to think back a

few years and it's not like it's just in

the most recent role they ask you that

so for our listeners I mean you could

get asked that um you could get asked

that for several roles back and which

could date several years back so and I

also know that that's what hiring

managers look for like that's as we talk

about you know Trends and different

things that that you need to do in 2024

that's one I would say is that like have

your notable achievements and

accomplishments on your resume because

hiring managers are looking for that

they want to see that on the resume

versus in a conversation is where you

think okay that's where I normally bring

it up nope it's the trend to have it on

your resume and it's hard to remember so

keep track of it and on your link in so

we talked about this you know before

just you know when we were working

together and we're like you know you're

doing your um like performance

conversations and hey how's it going and

[ __ ] like that right and it's like well

I don't know what did I do in the last

before two weeks ago I don't even

remember what I did yesterday um what I

loved is when you talked about the data

Integrity because I look at putting data

in sometimes as like admin work my God

God got to put my numbers in got to put

my send out how many you know like stuff

like that it kind of seems like

exhausting but you really hit me with

something where it's like no it's you're

literally ruining your data if you don't

keep going this isn't just for shits and

giggles this isn't just to put it in and

say yay me you know it's actually

looking back what are the real Trends

what are we seeing and then being able

to educate you know the hiring managers

the industry um and just find all those

constant Trends I I love I love that you

said that definitely it's like one of

those things where it's like you you

have to do it but you don't want to do

it exactly like you said because it's

like tedious right like you literally

have to do this because it's not going

away but it's also like it's not going

away right so when you do need it then

it's kind of like you have to backtrack

and then you just make life a little bit

harder for yourself and life is already

hard like you know you're you're trying

to make it work for you and this is how

it this is how un vir you got to do

it love it yeah so Crystal what would

you say is your broke to boss tip for

listeners for this

episode so if I had anything to say hire

managers assume recruiters assume data

doesn't and so that is a mic drop from

there yeah I just got the H who would

have thought numbers give something the

chill I know right women lie men lie

numbers don't

lie exactly Little Wayne another quote

by Little Wayne no I love that I here's

what's the more like polished

professional version of it mine was like

the rap trap Queen version you know that

is pain from though so who's to say that

rap can't

influence yeah influences me

daily okay Crystal thank you so much for

being on here um you know the way that

you talk about data and talk about how

it can drive you know um your career

your the impact um I love that love the

strategies and I think our listeners

will really really really enjoy that so

as you're listening to this as you got

you know writing ferociously cuz I know

I did uh please share it share it with

friends families all over the place so

thank you so much thank you for having

me see you next week bye