Talent Takeover Unfiltered

Welcome to Talent takeover.

Unfiltered.

When it comes to working hard and

keeping it real, we know our shit.

Self care, happiness, inner peace and time.

I'm Brianna Rooney, and this is Taylor Bradley.

Hey, y'all.

And we have thrived in chaos and

turned it into an art form.

So, Taylor, what are we doing here today?

We're here to give you a raw, under

the hood view of all things recruiting.

And finally, give credit where credit is

due to a long underrated industry that's

full of quote unquote experts.

All right, well, then, let's take

this show to the road.

Hey, there, it's Brianna

Rooney, your millionaire recruiter.

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Hello. Hello. Welcome to talent. Takeover.

Unfiltered.

So we're coming to you with taking a pay cut

to take a new job or after a layoff.

What in the world is the market doing?

What should we do? What's the move?

Taylor, how are you doing? I'm doing good.

How are you?

I've had a better day.

Okay, so we're being honest.

That's our usual energy that we're probably

like, what is wrong with these broads?

But it yeah, no, it's been better.

But I'm glad we're talking about this because I feel

like there's just a lot of questions that people have.

I know I get messages, just different

questions that people have in the market.

I know you get them too with your ask

me anything tmrp, people messaging you on LinkedIn.

And it's just like, what the fuck is

going on and how do people respond?

And so I think we should just talk about it,

the different trends and stuff that we're seeing with people.

And then specifically, like, questions, how

do you respond to certain situations?

So in this case, like you said, taking a pay

cut to take a new job offer after a layoff

in a market like this, is this the move?

And so what we're talking about and there's a couple

of different categories of, like, people that have maybe been

laid off and they stayed through COVID times or a

really tumultuous market and didn't leave whenever.

This is specific.

To recruiters, didn't leave whenever the salaries were like

400k or just these crazy, abnormal salaries that we

saw in the market, but just were steady, at

ease, consistent, had this job adjusted their way of

life to a comp that they're used to making.

And so I've had people ask me, what are you seeing?

What do you think about the market?

Do you think that it's worth kind of holding out

and waiting for a job that is comparable to what

you were at both job title and pay level?

Or is this the type of market that you

just need to take what you can get and

start working again, whether that's driving for Uber, whatever

that is, whatever that looks like.

And so I think that's the conversation

here is going, should they do that?

And keeping in mind that these are people that

don't like to be job hoppy or leave.

And so if they did accept something are going to be

looking for something that's going to get them back to where

they were but don't want to be job hobby from an

employer perspective like want to do right by their employer if

they accepted a job that was maybe at a lower level

both salary and job title than they're used to.

And so I think these are all fair questions.

I don't necessarily have the answer to them,

but I think we should talk about it.

Yeah, I think we're still seeing the

side effects of the Horrid COVID.

I feel like we're not supposed to

say the c word anymore, right? Different. C word.

Different.

But honestly, I think that it just took a long time,

depending on what market you were in, to hit you.

But I think what was interesting, what came after that, is

that we started to pay more attention to our mental well

being and think about, what do we want to do?

What are we happy doing?

But I will say, like anyone that has gone

through therapy, whether or not you're in the beginning

of the journey or you've been in it, it

gets worse before it gets better.

So I think when you start to kind of

sit down and be like, shit, here I am.

Whether or not you're laid off or you

decided you just don't like what you're doing

anymore and you start looking around, I do

think that you should take something now.

But I'm going to preface it with

this is all, like, completely personal.

So how long can you go without

making a certain amount of money?

So could you actually take a break and breathe?

Or is that break going to

cause some turmoil in the house?

Is it going to cause financial strain?

Because I got to tell you, financial strain

is the worst goddamn strain in the universe. The worst.

So for me, if I could go bartend and I go

to bartend, because obviously that's what I used to do before

obviously that's what I used to do before recruiting.

I think, could I go bartend and pay my bills and still see

my kids and do all those things that I need to do?

Could I go do that for a while

before I got back on my feet? Could I do that?

Could I look myself in the mirror?

Is that okay for me?

And my answer is yes, it is.

Because what's worse for me is not working, is because

you get in this another bad word, the D word,

the desperate, the desperado, and you have this mental shift

that's really fucking hard to get out of.

Yeah, well, and I think in this market, too, the

other caveat to factor into this is you can't possibly

factor in or anticipate when you'll find another job again.

And so, like, holding out for something better

and better and better is what's really like.

I get nervous for people that do that because what

I'm hearing is that there may not be a shift

in this market in a positive direction to, like, 2025.

And so I think if you're holding out for something, you

could end up being one of those people that we see

on LinkedIn and bless their heart, and I truly mean that.

That's eight, nine months without a job

that has gone through 50, 60 interviews.

I see those posts almost daily, as I'm sure

you do too, and with people with amazing backgrounds.

And so there's not really like that's another thing.

There's no profile of person

that's impacted by this market.

I mean, everybody that I know to

a certain extent has been impacted.

Now, what extent and what that looks like,

whether that's they take on more because other

people were let go, it's affected everybody here.

So I think that everybody in this market.

So I feel like that is really important,

is to just know what's best for you.

So I think that's what we're talking about here.

There's no real right or wrong answer, but you never

know when the market is going to come back.

So you've got to do what's best for you.

And I totally understand the thought process people have

of, like, you don't want to seem flaky.

You don't want to take a job where you go

through training, you've onboarded your learning curve three months, and

then you leave because you get a job that is

more aligned with what your entire background or career is.

But you have to do what's best for you.

I feel like that's kind of like the moral of all

of this, is you have to do what's best for you.

As much as I would love to be able

to tell people, yeah, take a month, take two

months off, like you said, it's dependent upon their

situation to focus on their mental health.

But you could have every expectation that you're going

to take a month or two off, then start

your job search, and it's a difficult search, and

then you're unemployed for six months.

And so I think, really, there's no

way you can plan around this stuff.

It kind of reminds me of, like, pregnancy, right, is

that people can try to plan when they want to

get pregnant, sure, but you never really know what your

journey is going to be, how easy that's going to

be for you, what's going to happen.

You can only plan it to a certain extent.

And so I think that everybody's got

to do what's best for you.

But I would recommend, if you get an offer from

a great company with great benefits, even though it may

not be where you want to be or where you're

used to being, as long as it's a good job,

I think anybody should take it.

I don't think that's my biggest takeaway from this is

like, don't hold out for something better right now.

Do what you need to do.

Because the people that I know that have held

out I was going to say hold it out. That's not a word.

Held out better.

They're still struggling now.

Six months, nine months unemployed. Okay.

So then on the flip side and from, I guess, a

company's perspective and how someone handle this, would you tell the

company that again, that has the pay that's good and feels

stable and whatever box is checking for you, would you tell

them that you're going to keep looking?

Would you tell them this isn't your

forever how do you line that up?

Yeah, and that's where it's like I probably wouldn't

advertise it, but I think those conversations are going

to happen, I have to imagine organically.

So if you start a conversation, if a recruiter reaches out

to you about a job, or if you apply for your

job, that may or may not have the comp listed.

But I feel like those

comp conversations happen pretty quickly.

And so I think that that's a

fair question for recruiters to ask.

I don't know what I would do in

that situation, because obviously it would do you

a disservice in getting that job. 100%? Yeah. No, 100%.

And I'm thinking about that too,

and I'm like, you know what?

I thought about this when I started my

own business, and now that as I mentor

business owners, you have to do everything right.

So if I'm going to be a janitor, I'm going

to be the best goddamn janitor you've ever seen.

And so I think that that's kind of the mentality

that you have to have, that if you're willing to

sign up for something that, again, is out of scope

or however you feel like your level is at right,

then you just be like, the absolute best.

Because I would still want a recommendation,

I would still want a referral.

And then I think what's really important here is to

seek, like, you might be here in this moment, but

there are so many opportunities, perhaps even in the company

that you're at, and it doesn't matter where you started,

maybe down the road like, hey, you know what?

I really wanted to do this.

And in a few months, you can

now have that ability to do it.

So I think that my recommendation.

What I would do is if I'm going to do

something out of scope, I'm going to, one, be badass

at it, but I'm, two, going to keep making sure

that I am bringing the most ROI to that company,

because I think that's how you pay it forward.

I think that's good karma.

And I would want someone to

treat my business like that.

So it's like the retention when people leave,

it costs businesses quite a lot of money

that I don't think we talk enough about.

So I would want to make sure that I'm at

least setting up a company the best I can and

that I can leave with the high head.

Yeah, I think that's what you said,

and I was writing down something.

I think that's a different situation

where you can be honest.

So going back to what you asked

me, would I tell the employer?

I think if you're doing a job, you're working

for a company internally, and there are things that

are outside of the scope of what your role?

Has been or what you like to do or want to do

or what you were hired to do that you're taking on, whether

that's with a pay cut or not, that you're taking on.

I think it's fair to say, like, hey, when

things change, I'd like to go back to doing

X or whatever, like, happy to do this now.

So I think that is where you can be honest and

I think that any employer would appreciate, I'm happy to lean

in here and do whatever it is if it's usually recruiting,

but you're going to go over here and do marketing stuff

like whatever that looks like for you.

I think it's fair to be honest with your current

employer that, yes, hey, I'm happy to help do this,

but this is not something that I want to do

long term or want to do forever.

Even if I do really well at it or I

don't, I want to go back to doing X.

I think there you could have because you're

already working there internally, you can be more

honest, you can have those conversations.

But I definitely think if you were honest in

the interview process with that, I think it would

impact your chances of getting the job.

However, I would say that I'm sure most

recruiters, because that's just what we do know.

That if somebody is used to making a comp pay

level at XYZ and they're taking 100k less, 75k less,

whatever it is, they may not stay a while because

you have to factor in like we always think about

it when we send candidates over, right?

If we send somebody that is 50, 60, $75,000

higher than what they're willing to pay on their

max, shouldn't even send that person because it's not

like we're talking a couple of $1,000 here.

It's like that amount of money

will change your way of life. Exactly.

So I think it's definitely probably the norm

to assume they're going to be seeking something

else out while they take this role.

Or the way to be honest about it, I could say

is like, hey, I'm really looking for something that's going to

be at this, but I'd be happy to help you guys

out from a contract basis until I can find something else.

So I think that's another way.

Yeah, that's definitely a good one,

but yeah, I agree with you.

When we're interviewing, there's only so much honesty, unfortunately,

that goes through there and on the other side,

the company is only so honest as well.

And so I think you have to kind of take

that, look, I'm going to do the best I can,

my integrity is going to be really high.

But at the end of the day, the company

has to do what's right for them and the

person has to do right for them.

And I think that that's even where you

started this conversation in the beginning, is you

got to do what's right for you.

Like at the end of the day, you

have to do what's right for you.

And does it feel shitty sometimes?

I mean, think about the people that accept jobs

and don't show up or are there for like

a month, you know what I mean?

Because they were waiting for

some offer somewhere else.

Is it fucking shitty? Yeah.

But guess what, you have to do what you have to do.

And I know being a business owner for so long,

I've had the hard conversations on the other side, right?

I've had people come to me in turmoil and feeling

really bad and it's like I can't get mad.

Can I be disappointed?

Fuck yeah, I can be disappointed.

Can I be bummed?

Yes, absolutely.

But at the end of the day, they're human

beings and I will say and I don't know

if I've always been like this, be very honest.

I feel like once I had kids, I

really put life into a different perspective.

I was like, oh, okay, you do you.

It's always, oh, you do you.

I think before I had kids and I don't know

if our listeners can relate, anyone that does not have

kids now I would imagine has a different perspective.

But yeah, now it's like, hey, do what you need to,

like do what pays the bills, do what keeps you happy.

I think know we go to Disneyland a lot.

I'm like, I'm going to do what makes

me go into Disneyland with my kids.

And that's what you have to do because time is short.

But going back to the desperado of it,

you just don't want to go there.

I think of the strongest minds in

the universe right when you are low.

I mean there are so many studies that show this.

I have definitely been low in life.

Often I feel like I've had a little bit of a

roller coaster lately, but it's fucking hard to get back up.

It is.

So it's like you don't want to go there and

so you can't wait like the six and nine months

to find something again unless you have saved for it.

But on the opposite side, do you really want

to blow your savings looking for a job?

I mean, probably not. Yeah. Wow.

I mean it's so relatable and it's like one that's like

I feel like heavy on my heart to talk about because

I know so many people are talking about this and affected

by this and are just like, what do I do?

And have a lot of integrity as far as like I

don't want to just up and quit on an employer if

I start a new job, but it's not my job that

I can see myself doing forever, you know what I mean?

I don't know.

I think you get to our age.

Oldest shit is what I feel.

Yeah, you're just like, you know what you

want and you know what you don't.

But you also have that. And I completely agree.

It started after I had kids.

You have that also separate

mentality that overdrives the others.

That is like, I'll do anything to take care

of my family, like anything I have to do.

But is that going to be the

key to my happiness long term?

Probably not.

Yeah, no, you have to course

correct, I think, rather quickly.

And I think even on the opposite side,

I think about lowering prices, for example.

So again, back to the people that

were helping start their own agencies, they're

like, do I just drop my prices?

Do I just come in like half the price

and just kind of grab up all of that?

Now, here's the thing.

It's going to sound very like I'm contradicting

myself, but I'm going to say no.

I'm going to say, do we drop it

a little bit due to the market?

Yes, that's a market correction.

But to drop it all the way down

to desperate level, where now you're discounting your

actual service, like significantly, even lower than market,

I think that's a problem because that's going

to set you up for a different mindset.

That, again, I think is really hard to come back at.

So a little course correction drop. Absolutely.

But like, dirt level probably hard to come back from.

True.

But on the flip side of that,

what if you just need a win?

Yeah, that too.

What if you're just like, I just

need a w, whatever that looks like.

Yeah, well, see, then again, it goes

back to the mindset of things.

So, yeah, if there has been no wins and you're like,

fuck someone, sign up for something 100%, you take that.

But I don't think it should be

then that's your thought process moving forward.

That's your price.

Yeah, that's not your price.

That's just like, hey, right now I got to do this.

I mean, I think about when I first

started Trulia, which everyone knows Trulia, right?

Fucking massive.

They were one of my very first clients and I was

used to getting paid at that time in the market.

The market was really good and so we were charging

like 25% to 30% of the first year salary.

But I just started on my own and it was Trulia,

so it was a really cool brand and they're like, well,

you can do it for five k a placement.

I was like, five k at placement,

that was so that was insulting, right?

But at the time of my career, not only was I, like,

what, 24 years old, but also I had to prove myself.

I had bills to pay, I was my

own boss, like all those things, right?

So it's like, I had to do what I had to

do and I took that and I made three placements. 15k.

Fucking crazy.

When it's somewhere else, that's like 90K.

So I left a significant amount on the table.

But guess what, it was business and it snowballed for

me because, like you said, it gave me a w.

It gave me the win. Yeah.

So I wasn't sending five K off to every other company

because, oh, well, Trulia is only paying me five k.

It was the exception to the rule, not the rule. Yeah.

I think we're going into something different, too,

that you got my wheels going over here.

Of how much of a mental and mind fuck this can be

to take what you feel is a step back, how hard that

is for people to take a step back, even if it's just

a moment, like taking a step back to work on roles.

When you've been making XYZ comp exact

scenario you just outlined, I think it's

a really humbling experience for people.

And it's also really hard I don't want to

downplay how hard that is for people to feel

like you're taking a step back in your career.

If you're really passionate about

your career, that's really hard.

If most of your defining moments come from your career

versus anything else, to feel like you're taking a step

back, I feel like, can be really hard for people.

So the mental journey, I feel like we

should have a whole episode just on that.

That the mental journey and the highs and

lows of what you need to do.

Everybody knows what's best for them. Each of us know.

Only we know.

But I think there's something to be said for

getting wins, but I think there's something else to

be said for maintaining a certain amount of integrity

with as far as your pricing is going to

go for certain people and certain things.

Like, I could argue both sides of

every single thing we're talking about.

And that's what I'm saying.

It's just such a hard I almost don't even

have the words because it's such a hard situation

for people to be in, and we know so

many people that are in this situation right now.

I also think it's the industry, too, right?

I come in with a text lens

when it comes to software engineering, right?

These people are getting paid for a very long time.

I mean, on a low 150, very low, right?

And then it's more up to like 300 a year.

And so I've recently had some staff level, which

is the tippety top right, of an individual contributor.

And he's like, hey, I'm making 275.

I'm like, you're great on paper.

I know you personally.

I know what companies you come from.

So I was like, I'm excited to pitch this guy, right?

And so I go and do my homework.

I go see what companies are going to

be great for him within his salary range,

right, and all of his little requirements.

And I had to go back to him.

I'm like, I'm sorry your comp is high.

This is just not what the market is right now.

And I'm not saying that you're not worth it.

I'm sure you're worth every goddamn penny.

But unfortunately, the market is not saying that.

And so you have to take a massive pay cut.

And I'm talking massive pay cut.

I'm talking like it was more of like 220 was

probably the highest that I was seeing from two.

And so that's significant.

And so he's like, Well, I don't want to stay here.

I'm like, well, then you got to take a pay cut.

It's a give and take anyways.

So he's like, okay, yeah, just

get me a good environment.

So then we start to think and

again, this is probably a different conversation.

So it's like, give me a good environment,

give me a good boss, give me people

will take massive pay cuts for that shit.

And I don't think companies I don't know

why I'm getting the money chills right now

because it's like talking about pay cuts.

I've never gotten the money

chills talking about pay cuts.

But it's like companies like, wake the fuck up.

We're not still doing enough when it comes to how

we treat people, how we talk about it, what tools

we give them to succeed, all of that shit.

That's the stuff people are going to I don't know

why I think of Krispy Kremes because I don't even

like donuts, but I think about these long ass line

of people just waiting to get this one thing.

But that's what it would be for

a company that actually does things right. Yeah.

And then whenever there is these ebbs and flows in

the market, they don't have to worry about losing their

employees to somebody else who's going to pay more.

Because at the end of the day,

they value their culture, their environment, their

boss, all of these things more.

Yeah, completely agree with that.

Well, I think we should definitely have another

one that's just all about the mental health

journey of being laid off or looking for

a job or just surviving in this market.

Maybe that's what we'll call it,

like surviving in this market. Yeah.

Well, we do have for our

listeners something to look forward to.

We're going to have a guest on that

is going to talk about Never Search alone.

It is a book, so Jess, please put that

in the notes for them to check out.

But it's essentially like how you network and find

your great job and it's not from applying.

So I think this all kind of goes hand in hand.

It's like, how do we find the job that we want to find?

Or how do we find a job that we need

right now and not have to feel so heavy?

Because you could look on indeed right now.

This is mind boggling to me.

It was a financial startup, actually, I

guess they're not a startup now.

They have like 1000 people, but they have 1500

to 2500 applications for every job that they have

posted and they have like 50 jobs.

I'm thinking to myself, it's kind of depressing.

Looking at that is depressing.

For so many different reasons.

I won't even tangent on that one.

But yeah, so there's so many facets, I think,

to this and to where we are in the

market that we absolutely have to dig here.

Mindset 100%. Yeah. Okay.

I'm going to leave them with the broke to boss Tip and

then we're definitely going to add on to one of those.

So broke to boss Tip is, and we've already touched

on it is know your worth, but also be smart.

So do what you have to do to

take care of yourself and your family.

And so I think that's like, people that reach out to me

and ask me this question or ask me questions about should I

do this or like I can't give you the answer.

Brianna can't give you the answer.

Everybody's got to do what's right for themselves.

But if the question is about the

market, just know we don't see.

And I'm not trying to be negative,

Nancy, I'm trying to be realistic.

Rhonda we don't see a change a shift

right now or in the near future.

I would say that everything I'm reading is 2025.

Again, that's just what I'm reading.

So do what you have to do to take care of

yourself, like whatever that looks like bartend, drive for Uber, go

work in any kind of other job, like whatever that is.

But I think people should to definitely in this

market do what they have to do to take

care of themselves, but also know their worth.

Be smart.

Be smart.

Love it.

That was heavy one.

It is a heavy one.

Thank you all for listening.

We'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks, y'all.