Takeover Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney:
Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. Always thank you for listening today, we have on is Jeff Capella and he has just he's in actually in the process of writing the book, job hunt hacker. He has almost 25 years in the TA world agency, corporate and consulting, and he has been awarded on the top cultural influencer on three separate occasions. This is going to be a lot of fun, Taylor.

Taylor Bradley:
Yeah. And don't forget to listen all the way until the end for Jeff's broke to boss tip of the week. I'll be really interested to see what he has to say.

Brianna Rooney:
Welcome to talent takeover unfiltered when it comes to working hard and keeping it real. We know our, self care, happiness, inner peace and time. I'm Brianna Rooney. And this is Taylor Bradley. Hey y'all. And we have thrived in chaos and turned it into in art form.

Brianna Rooney:
So, Taylor, what are we doing here today?

Taylor Bradley:
We're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to long underrated industry. That's full of quote unquote experts. All right, well then let's take this show to the road. Okay. So I met Jeff on LinkedIn just to give everybody some context. I met him on LinkedIn and, um, you know, we don't really know each other. We just kind of crossed paths and I can't even remember exactly how we crossed paths, but we all know the TA space recruiting world is kind of small. And so I told him a little bit about what we're trying to accomplish. And then he shared with me a little bit about his book, you know, job hunt, hacker, or hacker job hunt. However you wanna phrase it, tips, tricks, and hacks to help you find your dream job is really that's.

Taylor Bradley:
What stood out to me is tips, tricks and hacks to help you find your dream job and like that's fascinating. Um, and so Jeff and I crossed, passed. We started chatting on LinkedIn and I, I was like, I would absolutely love for you to be on the podcast. And Jeff said that he would absolutely love to do it. Um, he's an avid listener of the podcast. He gives me really great, amazing and slash hilarious feedback. Um, and, um, specifically about the gong. Um, I'll never forget that Brianna, I had a really good laugh about that because we actually do have a gong and Jeff heard a gong in the background. Um, so anyways, Jeff, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself and, um, a little bit about your book.

Jeff Campanella:
Sure. Thank you. And thank you so much for having me on I'm big fan already, uh, in such a kind of early stage of your podcast. It's been great. Uh, it's awesome that you've been paying it forward. Thank you. Uh, that's something that's top of mind for me as well, paying it forward. I've been recruiting for 25 years, uh, agency corporate consulting. I've had my own firm, um, and I decided at this stage of my career is gonna be really important to pay forward and try to help people as they're navigating a job search. And this came, uh, the inspiration came pretty, you know, genuinely someone reached out and said, you know, Hey, you're a recruiter. I'm looking for a job. Can you help? And you know, as we know, that's not really what we do as recruiting and TA professionals, you know, know we work for an employer or, uh, a client and they task us with finding specific talent.

Jeff Campanella:
So it usually doesn't work the other way, but I had some empathy for this person and I, I leaned in and I gave them a couple of pointers on like, Hey, here's a, here's what we'll give you the best fighting chance. Um, and I, I, I don't have the bandwidth to do that with everyone that reaches out. So I thought, Hey, why don't I, you know, collect information, not only from my own head, but from colleagues and, uh, connections that I have on, uh, ways to help, uh, job seekers position themselves as they're searching for a new role from a recruiter and from a talent acquisition person's, uh, point of view. So that was the nature of the book. And, uh, you know, I'm really excited about it. It's in editing right now with the, and I'm hoping to get it out and publish, uh, in August sometimes.

Taylor Bradley:
Yay. That is exciting. Yeah. Congratulations on that. That's, I mean, that's a huge accomplishment and I love that you kind of mentioned that you had crowdsourced, um, the information in the book because love the diversity of thought the different perspectives, best practices. Um, as, as I was mentioning to you, Jeff, that Brianna is a tech recruiter, I'm a Renaissance recruiter, which is really, as we've defined everything besides tech, and we know that there's different best practices for both there's different ways and approaches for, for both sides of the house. Yeah. You know, so I love that. You're kind of like, it's not a one size fits all, but here's kind of my thoughts, my perspective, as well as my colleagues. And I love that you put that together in a book just for the sole purpose of helping people.

Jeff Campanella:
Yeah. You know, it's, as we're, you know, as I'm looking at my career arc or the career trajectory and kind of on the backside after all these years, you know, I, I, I realize I can't help everyone directly. So this is a great indirect way to, to help people. And when I crowdsource the info, honestly, I learned a lot and, you know, yes, that was, that was really enlightening to me. I come from the tech recruiting world too. That's been most of what I've done in my career. So getting the perspective of quote unquote non-tech recruiters and how they would help a job seeker, it was still applicable. And so, uh, not only was this kind of a labor love for me in trying to draw down all the information that I had in my own head, but it was a great learning opportunity and things that, that I had never thought of before. So

Taylor Bradley:
I love that because, um, I that's exactly what I was gonna ask you because I, um, you know, Taylor and I, we battle a lot versus like, you know, what's right in different recruitings right. You know, I'm like, well, I do it this way. You do it that way. And, you know, even just through, um, diversity, so we just started the diversity station, which is really helping people hone in and beautify, you know, their LinkedIn, their resume. And we're also doing mock interviews with them. And so what was really cool about that process is because here at talent perch, we have Renaissance and tech. So we had the talent partners come together and say, okay, here's best practices. And we had really solid conversations over it because I mean, just the fight in, you know, pictures on the resume, um, hobbies, personality, like if I'm looking for a recruiter, I want personality. If I'm looking for a software engineer, I want personality, cuz it doesn't normally exist. So we had so many different, you know, perspectives. And then we had to come to a decision on what we felt was all encompassing. And so I would imagine you had the same, you know, issues and fun. Uh, yeah,

Jeff Campanella:
Absolutely. You know, I, you know, there are some, uh, kind of underlying foundational principles as far as what a job seeker should do and even best practice, uh, on how they position themselves in the market. But yeah, there are definitely some nuances depending on the genre of work that you're looking for. You mentioned pictures, uh, on the resume. So, um, one of the tips that I actually gave in the book is don't put a picture on your resume because the way certain ATSs will parse the info, it will sometimes render the characters on your resume on recognizable. Even if you could probably figure out a way to view the resume. If a recruiter is rifling through hundreds of resumes in a given period of time, any snag they'll just skip and go to the next and the content of your resume might be fantastic. But that picture may not be record by the recognized by the ATS that's being

Taylor Bradley:
Used. So right. What, and then I, what my personal views on picture is that it could create a bias. You know, so I mean, although in today's world, right. You know, part of recruiting and part of, one of the things that employers do is research a candidate, social footprint. So more than likely you're gonna see a picture of them anyway. But, um, you know, our best practice is that we say no pictures on resumes, just because of that bias. Because most oftentimes, you know, we're the ones doing the research on the social footprint for our clients. So it's interesting that the different, even that the different perspectives of why, although we all agree, you shouldn't have a picture, but the, but the reasoning behind why is interesting as well. Yeah, for sure. So Jeff, you said something, you said that stood out to me, you said that while you were crowdsourcing, this book that you learned a couple things. And so I would really love to know, like, what is the, what is the top thing you learned? What is the biggest thing you learned? Or what is the thing that you were like, oh, I, that was like, that blew my mind.

Jeff Campanella:
So, so the one, one of the things for sure that stood out was emphasizing the importance of responding to emails, regardless of where you are in your career journey. And so, you know, people, a lot of times recruiters are reviewed like a doctor or a lawyer. Like you don't wanna mess with them unless you need them for something that that's typically how we're categorized. Now, I, I try to talk about the importance of networking and how vital recruiters should be to your network. Um, whether you quote, unquote, need them now in your job search or whether you're happily employed, right? They should always be a vital part of your network and responding to that InMail. They become part of your network. And, you know, we, we have seen through our careers shifts from a candidate driven market to a client driven market. Now we're starting to see a change at a macro level.

Jeff Campanella:
We're gonna start seeing a pivot to a client driven market a little bit here. And candidate driven may not be as prevalent as the economy changes. And there's lots of evaluations, right? So it's better to have those connections and not need them and now than need them and not have them. So that was something that really jumped out. Like when someone doesn't respond to an InMail of mine, I don't see that as you know, that's not the last try. I'm gonna try to reach out 3, 4, 5 times, but people are like, oh, I can't be bothered with recruiters because I'm happy and I'm working and I don't wanna, but they're not thinking the long term of, at some point down the line you might need, and they'll be a vital part of your network.

Taylor Bradley:
I love that you brought that up because LinkedIn makes it so easy. So first of all, what, 80, 80% or more of their traffic is on mobile. They make it so easy. They give you three different options on no thanks, not interested maybe next time or, you know, whatever, you don't even have to type it out anymore. So you're right to give a response is super simple. Now I would imagine some get, you know, 25 to 50 messages a day. So it gets a little crazy, um, on the opposite side, which is interesting, is like, I'll get someone to get back to me like literally three years later. And my thought is like, how Desperado are you right now that you just responded to my message three years ago? Like, can you imagine sifting through messages from like three years ago? Um, so like, I see like both sides cuz like that person, if they just would've responded right, then it wouldn't feel like this has been three years.

Taylor Bradley:
And it's really weird. Um, on the opposite side, on LinkedIn recruiter and this is what a lot of, um, candidates don't know is they don't see LinkedIn recruiter, right? So they don't know what capabilities we have. We don't, they don't know what insights we have. There is this beautiful button that says most likely to respond. Mm-hmm . And so it's right under the people who are actively looking and so recruiters more than likely hit go to that section. And those people are the ones who respond and are active on LinkedIn. So that's something I love that point.

Jeff Campanella:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good, it's a good filter. It's a filter I use, uh, when I don't have tons of time to, to, to source and I want to really truncate the, the sort the results set. Um, but it really just emphasizes the importance of networking and it really has to be intentional. It should be some someone's investing in themselves and in their career. Um, it shouldn't be happenstance. Shouldn't just be when you need it. I've been building my network since I started in this industry, uh, there was no LinkedIn when I started, there was no Facebook when I, there was no social media when I started except MySpace, that kind of ages me, but, but its what it

Taylor Bradley:
We're with you, we're with you.

Jeff Campanella:
So, so mine started out with going to, you know, two user groups a week. Um, you know, it started out pulling out boxes of physically printed resumes and just dialing and saying, Hey, I'm new. I don't know what you do, but I'm really interested in finding out, tell me what you do. Uh, those are people I'm still connected with. I've never hired them. Never placed them in a job, but they're a great referral source for me cuz I know I can, they know there's some reciprocity there. I invested time in them and they they're always happy to return the favor.

Taylor Bradley:
Absolutely. You know, one of the best executive recruiters that I have ever worked with in my entire life, um, very successful. Um, she was another millionaire recruiter, although she's not the millionaire recruiter but she, she built her whole entire business off of just doing executive searches and just networking and referrals. Um, and dare say she didn't even use LinkedIn, but she had, you know, through her reputation and her ability to place these C C-suite level individuals. I mean it was all word of mouth, all networking. Um, and it it's just so powerful. So I, I think what you guys have said and what you've really talked about, Jeff, the power of networking is so huge. And um, you know, I, I think that's actually how we got to talking on LinkedIn is because we were messaging each other because I'm a firm believer. If it's a message that somebody sends me that I can tell isn't a generic one and you know, they're not calling me like, Hey bill, you know, cause I've gotten some of those like, Hey bill, are you interested in becoming, you know, a software engineer?

Taylor Bradley:
And I'm like, I know that this person doesn't know about me then. Cause I'm not bill and I'm, you're not an engineer. You know what I mean? It's stuff like that. But if it's personalized, I'll always respond because um, you hit on something. You never know when you'll need us again. Mm-hmm and to your point, Brianna, you know that three years later that's a random, it's weird, but it wouldn't be if they had just responded to your point, right. And then, then reached out to you in two years, like, Hey, and I know I've got some of those. I know you've got some of those where we don't have to talk every day, every week, every year. But because we had some dialogue say Jeff and I lost touch in two years, if he reached back out to me, we'd pick right back up having a conversation and it wouldn't be weird. So the power of networking really like might drop on that. I think that's, and that's not just for recruiters. That's for anybody in general. You never know when you'll need us or need them. So yeah,

Jeff Campanella:
The cliche of, you know, it's who, you know, I mean, it really is true. Um, true. I, I can tell you over 25 years, whenever I've done job transitions, I think I've had one instance where I didn't know the person and I sent the resume and I got an interview. Most of it was just Daisy chaining referrals and just contacts and people that I've known.

Taylor Bradley:
Yeah, absolutely. So I do have a question for you going back to the book, I'm interested to know how long did it take you to write this book or how long have you been writing this book?

Jeff Campanella:
Um, I would say if it wasn't for the fact that I have lots of other things going on and I hadn't prioritized it, I probably could have written it in three months, but it's been almost two years. Um, and only because only because it just wasn't at the top of my list, but now I'm realizing as the market's shifting, there's gonna be more and more people I think that are gonna, you know, need some assistance. And so that was really kind of wide now lit a fire under me to, to make sure that I get it done and out. Um, especially after graduations and recent college grads getting out there who are networking, quote unquote social networking is just second nature to them, but it's not always the business networking. That's top of mind. It's always, you know, the Snapchat, the, and, and those types of things.

Taylor Bradley:
Okay. So now I have to ask, have you changed content because in two years, a lot has happened and I know just in diversity alone, as I even just do the tech, recruiting content, all of that stuff, um, I've gone back and I've improved it and thought more and you know, cuz people are out there more. So

Jeff Campanella:
Yes what's happened. Yeah. So I'll tell you one, one thing in particular, and this is actually a really good trick or tip that I can pass along. Um, so one of the, one of the comments that I get from many people that will tap me on the shoulder and say, Hey, can you help me find a job? Is, you know, I've applied to 50 places. I haven't heard back. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong. And so I, I give them a little tip. I said, look, do research on LinkedIn for the person that's posting the job. Okay. So if, if Mary Smith is posting the job, reach out, make a connection with Mary Smith and into connection. Say, Hey, I've heard a lot of great things about ABC company. I recently applied for a role, but I wanted to introduce myself to you

Taylor Bradley:
Love

Jeff Campanella:
That. Now, the reason why I say, make sure you tell them I apply for the role. You could even say, I went online and I applied through the role for the role through the right channels. The reason why I say that is because most recruiters, when they say, Hey, I'm really interested in that role. What does the recruiters say? Oh, go make sure you go apply. And that's like their way to jettison them off so they can focus on other things. But if you already answer an objection before they even say it, and you've personalized it by reaching out to that person, it really increases your chances. When people do that to me, it makes me at least go and look at their resume. Now they might not be a fit. They might not get an interview, but did I stop what I was doing to go look at their resume? Absolutely. And that's kind of the whole point of the book is to see if you can increase the chances to get a viewing of the, of the information

Taylor Bradley:
That is awesome. Love that. Um, so now we, I mean, it's already at time, which I feel like Jeff, we're gonna have to have you on, we're have to have a Jeff series. job hunt, hacker. Uh, but let's, uh, let's go to that. Broke to boss tip.

Jeff Campanella:
Yeah, for sure. So, um, we talked about being intentional networking. I would say, be intentional with, uh, self care as a boss. You know, we, um, we, if we're not the best version of ourselves, our leadership is gonna suffer. So make a point on your calendar to put time for lunch, to put time for exercise time for I'm getting away from the computer, publish it, let the staff know, let your team know. This is me time. This is important so that I can be in my best self for you. Um, don't be shy about that. So that's the tip I would pass along.

Taylor Bradley:
Ooh, amazing. He's got the chills, right. And it resonates with me. Me too so much. Yeah, it that's a good one. It really is a good one.

Jeff Campanella:
Thank you.

Taylor Bradley:
Nice. Thank you so much, Jeff. Have an awesome day. We loved having you on here. Yeah.

Jeff Campanella:
Thank you.

Taylor Bradley:
Well talk soon. Bye. Good luck with the book.