Takeover Unfiltered

Brianna Rooney: Welcome to another amazing episode of talent takeover

Taylor Bradley: Unfiltered.

Brianna Rooney: Right? Thank you so much for listening, cuz you inspire us always. So let's get into it. This one is gonna be all about when our hiring managers costing you money. Yes, this is controversial. Welcome to talent takeover

Taylor Bradley: Unfiltered.

Brianna Rooney: When it comes to working hard and keeping it real. We know our, self care, happiness, inner peace and time. I'm Brianna Rooney and this is Taylor Bradley. Hey y'all and we have thrived in chaos and turned it into in art form. So Taylor, what are we doing here today?

Taylor Bradley: We're here to give you a raw under the hood view of all things recruiting and finally give credit where credit is due to a long underrated industry. That's full of quote unquote experts.

Brianna Rooney: All right. Well then let's take this show to the road very controversial in fact, and, but you know, we need to talk about it because the hiring managers definitely affect the recruiter's job so they can cost us a lot of money and you could then be paying for too much money for recruiters. So Taylor, how often have you seen this happen?

Taylor Bradley: Uh, every day.

Taylor Bradley: Monday through Sunday. It happens, but um, no, I mean hiring managers, this happens all the time in our world, but it's also just like, I don't think they realize how much money they're spending and then what they're doing, the damage they're doing to their brands. Just having these roles open. I would say I'm skipping ahead obviously, but jumping right into one of the biggest issues that I see is they just have these jobs open for so long. Mm-hmm 60 days, 90 days, 120 days. It's changed 13 times. Yeah. That's typically like, I would say number one, as far as where you're hiring managers are costing you money, they don't know what they're looking for or doesn't exist. They have to hire their backfill and nobody's as good as them. And you know, didn't graduate from Yale in 1976, like they did. And you know, like they're like, I know all, you have to know exactly what I know or, you know, you're not qualified for the job. So I think hiring managers are still, if I could summarize it, they're still focusing too much on the hard skills and experience. And you know, I'd like to welcome them to 20, 22 to focus more on soft skills.

Brianna Rooney: Well, and what can you train? Like that's its own, you know, can of worms for sure. But hiring managers are one of the ones that cost the most money as far as company goes. Right. Uh, so they're not even taking that into account about how much time they're spending on even just interviewing. And I call it fake interviewing because it's like, do you really wanna fill the role or do you just wanna again, dial it in and just interview? And you're looking for, like you said, this purple squirrel, which probably doesn't exist.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. I feel like most of the time it's to check a box, right? Their leadership or somebody, you know, above wants them to back fill a job or fill a role and they're not invested in it. And that's where that's like the first sign of, you know, this hiring process and cycle is gonna be a real. whenever the hiring manager is just, they they're not available. They're not accessible. They don't provide feedback. You can tell they don't see it as a priority. Yeah. That's problem. Number one.

Brianna Rooney: And so it trickles down to two sectors and I love to dig deep into both of these, but one the candidate experience. So here we have this candidate and let's just say they are badass and you have recruiters trying to get these badass candidates. And the candidate's like, oh, that's weird. That wreck is still open. It's still on their site. I was gonna apply to them six months ago. Did they not fill this role? Then all of a sudden the company smells, you know, like a stinky cheese. Yeah. So that's that. And then on the other side of the coin is you have recruiter who their role and we talk about KPIs and what they're supposed to be heading. Their job actually depends on filling this role. And you have a hiring manager. Who's not that serious about it. And they're just sourcing, sourcing, and sourcing. So they're frustrated, they're upset. They're probably gonna leave because they're not seeing success because either one they're bored or two, they fear their job, which happens a lot in recruiting. And then that costs the company money. So we're costing money all over the, the chain here on just one hire manager, not really pulling the trigger.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. And I feel like that's so impactful. The data show them the cost of vacancy. So they

Brianna Rooney: Oh, cost of vacancy. Let's pause for that.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. Cost of vacancy, cost of vacancy, love that a lot of companies are like, how do you factor that out? How do you figure that? But to me, it's without even having to put the numbers, the specific numbers on it or the formula it's, you know, a lot of managers say that the whole reason they don't have time to interview is because them and two other people are having to do this person's job because it's a vacant role, but it's like, okay, but do you not realize it's gonna stay vacant if you don't make the time to interview. So you're gonna stay doing that job. So which one it's, it's a, a give and take. Right? And I feel like a lot of managers until you put data in front of them, they have no idea what, they're the detriment that they're actually doing to the company.

Brianna Rooney: You bring up another amazing point because that also is affecting the hiring manager's team. So it's one thing. The hiring manager, you know, digs and closets way to this particular position. They're used to probably working too much , you know, and then, and they're going for it and they probably love it. Maybe that's their whole world and they don't give a. But what they're not understanding is now they have their whole team in kind of a predicament on one they're working too much that they didn't sign up for that. And then also they're thinking like, wait a minute, why am I working for a company? That's a stinky cheese. Why does no, no one wanna join us. Yep. What the hell? So that alone is probably gonna cost even more people to leave. Now you got a backfill. We talk about that too. Mm-hmm do we talk about not only filling the role, but then now back filling a role and then lots of times, and, and especially in this, you know, can driven market they're literally just backfilling. Yep.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. I actually read this really interesting article the other day that, um, was saying that there is going to be this shift in the next few years where they're going to be able to automate the bulk of hiring manager task or manager task mm-hmm so bulk and automate them. So it's like, they're gonna be this. There's gonna be this focus and switch from hiring managers, focused on their tasks and they're gonna automate what they can. And hiring managers are now gonna be focused on building relationships with their team. It's gonna become more human relationship focused, which is crazy. Cause that's what you think it should be

Brianna Rooney: A lot. Yeah. But they're gonna do a bot. They're gonna need a bot to

Taylor Bradley: Do that. No, no, no. They're gonna try to automate what they can like administrative tasks. Got it. Responsibilities. And then they're gonna to allow managers to focus on building stronger relationships with their team.

Brianna Rooney: Interesting. Okay. So I actually, I love that because first of all, managers should be with their team for sure. But then also when you think about it, you should have your own interview team. Why don't doesn't any company have their own interview team, because when you think about it, if you're gonna have someone interview, they should be interview professionals. They should have all the best practices, which we all know doesn't exist. Um, and they should have the best candidate experience, which we all know that doesn't exist. But then they also be able to have that cell tactic as well, to make sure people are like really interested in the company, which comes with candidate experience. So, oh, I'm interested in this. Well,

Taylor Bradley: That would require the managers to actually acknowledge that, that they don't know what they're doing is a strategy and a talent and all of that. Yeah. I mean,

Brianna Rooney: Which is what we're trying to do here,

Taylor Bradley: Insert the talent takeover. Right. That's what we're trying to do is educate everybody in a relatable way. I mean, these are real situations that we experience all things we see every single day. And I think it's just a lack of really understanding the value recruiting has in any organization to any organization. Yeah.

Brianna Rooney: I'm so we talk about that, you know, there is no, um, training for recruiters, you know, but if you really wanna dig deep, there's actually one, no training for hire managers, but also there's no best practices in interviewing. Yeah. Like I don't know why that just, I mean, I knew that, but you just kinda hit me with a ton of bricks on just what this solution could be. And I was like, wait a minute, if they're gonna do that and they better as well have a hi an interviewing team. Yeah. Like why do they not have that? And when you think about it, it's like, well, that's really expensive. Well, how much does it cost you? Like we just talking about how much are hiring managers costing you or how hundreds of millions

Taylor Bradley: To go back to a previous example. Toyota does, I told you that they have a dedicated interview team, but like I said, they were years ahead, seven years ahead. I would say of the candidate experience. It was important to them before it was a thing for it to be important. And they did have that. And they went through a pretty rigorous interview training for that's company culture. Um, the diversity, equity, inclusion, all of that. I mean really intense training, but I'm like, that's incredible. That's a game. And it was their own that they created, which is why I love that we're creating these hiring manager, interview training and best practices because I mean, of course that's gonna be some of it's gonna be just perspective, but most of it is what we've seen in the industry every single day, year, over year there's themes.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. So interesting. You know what I really enjoy and we're definitely gonna have some guests on, for sure. Even though I know you love us here, just the two of us, but uh, we're gonna have some hiring managers on, you know, there's lots of directors of engineering, VP of engineering and so forth that really wanna keep it real. And they're, you know, upset that they haven't had the training. And that, uh, one in particular has a recruiting friend, really good friend of his and that, that recruiting friend has taught him a lot and really had put him in his place. And he admitted that just this last year, he's been able to have a lot more success because he realized he needs to put himself in the shoes of a recruiter.

Taylor Bradley: I love that. Yeah. That's phone a friend that phone a friend.

Brianna Rooney: Was it Loveline yeah. Something well, recruiter

Taylor Bradley: Line. I've got my own Loveline

Brianna Rooney:

Taylor Bradley: Um, no, but I really do love and that this individual took the time to educate themselves too, to actually reach out to their friend. And I mean, I don't have any friends that do what we do, but I really dunno the ins and outs of what they do either for them to teach anything. So I think that's what we love. Right. Educate yourself, whatever that looks like, a mentor, an advisor, whatever, educate yourself. I love that. That person didn't think that they knew all there is to know about interviewing just cuz they've hired people before.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. Well, first of all, they didn't come without a cost because originally that person was barking down recruiters next because he is like, why is my wreck not getting filled? And he happened to be who is a good friend of his to a recruiter. And he said, I'm straight. So, you know, it goes hand in hand .

Taylor Bradley: Okay. So not, not as self-aware as I originally thought,

Brianna Rooney: But, but self-aware enough to change,

Taylor Bradley: Right? Yeah. Well, I mean they understood the assignment at some point, so that's all we can ask

Brianna Rooney: For. That's all

Taylor Bradley: That matters. There's a, there was a shift in one higher, like one down. Yeah,

Brianna Rooney: Exactly. We got it. We got that. Uh, you know, the reason why this subject is so interesting is because I think we can see it through a few different lenses. And just recently I was talking to a recruiter friend of mine. Um, that was just so frustrated with the hiring manager. This wreck was open for about eight months. This person is responsible for filling it. So again, it's like, you know, it's being ahead against head against the wall. He's feeling like he's a failure and this, this isn't working, can't get through this, this, uh, recruiter. And so thankfully he went to a higher up on the, uh, TA team and said, Hey, like I don't, I don't know what else to do. Like I'm not doing my job, like what's going on. And luckily that recruiter ran some data and they said, Hey, actually, this hiring manager, you have given this person two times the amount of candidates that any other hiring manager has had this entire, um, half of the year, six months and still isn't hired.

Brianna Rooney: But what's crazy is that this recruiter had to go up the ladder in order to complain. And honestly wasn't complaining. It was more of like feared his job. Yeah. For the recruiter to say, pull the data and be like, actually this hiring manager's kind of up because he is taking all this sourcing power from other hiring managers, not hiring and making our team feeling like they're not doing their job. Like what the hell? But it took someone literally complaining like how is that? Okay. Like where are those standards? Where are those? Like who's, who's pulling a flag.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and then that you just made me think of another episode is, um, you know, talking about the recruiters, having those difficult conversations and how do you get comfortable with that? Cause you'll all have to do it at some point. So it's how do you get comfortable? I'm not getting what I need from you or you don't have realistic expect expectations. So I call it the nice nasty cuz it's like, you're trying to accomplish something like help me help you. Yeah. Right. But you have to take on a, more of an assertive tone to get them to understand. And most of the time, 98% of the time it's data, you have to show them, you could have been telling them in your weekly one on one, like, Hey, the salary range is really presenting an issue in this market, in this location. But until they see the data, that's why I love those market analytics reports. Right. Because I really think that that just is like, that shows why we're here and what we do and that, Hey, if yours is outta line it's versus us just saying it. Right, right. We put data in front of them. I feel like it hits different when you have data just hits different.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. And you know what? This actually goes back to the habits of a recruiter or just the, uh, essential, uh, ingredients of recruiting. But if you don't have that candidate tracker, so you can be the most amazing recruiter ever in the universe, but you're eventually gonna hit a hiring manager that has bad practice mm-hmm and that it doesn't matter what you do. How good of a recruiter you are, you are gonna fail with them because that's what that hiring manager is about. They're not about hiring. And if the hiring, manager's not about hiring, you're not doing your job, but if you have your candidate tracker and you know, what effort has gone forth, that's your data. Absolutely. And that's why, it's the only thing that you can do to be that amazing recruiter is to have your own data. Um, and that's when you can tell your company, hello, Facebook, Google, whoever you are, whatever company you're for this hiring manager is costing you all a lot of money.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. You're able to identify the bottlenecks and they help them pivot. It's typically like that it's themes. There can be departments that are literally impacting your time to fill and some organizations monitor that pretty closely. Yeah. They have a goal of less than 90 days to fill any job at any level. So it's like who's impacting that and really getting to see where their basically gaps are.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. And most of the time it lands in TA's lap recruiters, lap. Yep. And that's when it's not fair. So how can we change this? How can we, as ensure that companies are not getting taken advantage of with hiring managers, cuz that that's, they're just costing us too much money. How like where I guess, where can we start? How can the recruiters help fix this? And then we'll kind of dissect it with companies, but

Taylor Bradley: I think it starts even before the recruiters. Okay. I think it starts with us, the conversations we have about the client engagement with the client, right? What, what are your hiring needs? What positions do you have open? And it's asking those questions, you know, how long has this role been open? What are the obstacles that you've run into? Like we have to vet that first to know kind of what we're signing up for. And I think that's where it starts is understanding what the obstacles are. And you can tell by the questions that you ask and the answers that you get, if the hiring manager's a bottleneck and it's either, usually the hiring manager for all the reasons that we've stated or it's the company interview process like the, the process they've determined is the process. It's eight steps. You've talked to 13 people. It just doesn't work in today's market and, and being we've had some clients like that, dig in their heels and just not willing to change and have lost probably 75% of the candidates that we've put forth that have been amazing. And other companies have hired. Yeah. Um, just because they're, they're losing 'em in the process,

Brianna Rooney: But how can we identify that it's a hiring manager's fault.

Taylor Bradley: I would we ask those questions about the process, like asking them, oh, well you haven't liked anybody this far. They haven't gotten past interview round number two. Why is that just really digging in and knowing what questions to ask to understand if it's like, like we've had, um, a hiring manager tell us, well, uh, I have candidates fall out cause we won't pull the trigger quick enough. We're required to have at least two weeks from the time that the candidate completes the, the panel interview to the time that they go to the founder interview, the CEO interview, he requires at least two weeks.

Brianna Rooney:

Taylor Bradley: It's, there's no real reason. It's just like two weeks before they can meet with you. So stuff like that. Yeah. Where I say that's not necessarily the hiring manager. Yeah. But

Brianna Rooney: It's CEO, but yeah. Okay.

Taylor Bradley: But it's still something that's outside of their control. That's a bottleneck in the process. But for the most part, it's the hiring provide feedback timely. I think setting expectations and stuff, you know, like us doing that on the front end. And then of course the recruiter's reiterating that weekly. Yeah. And being assertive, you know, we can establish what your metrics are, um, what feedback you need. I, I need feedback on re resumes and interviews within 48 hours. Yeah. Talk and give them those SLAs and expectations. But at the end of the day, the recruiter has to hold them accountable for that. Cuz we don't know if they're doing that or not.

Brianna Rooney: Yeah. So that go, that speaks to, you know, recruiters. Ah, and this is hard. And again, this is a different subject, but how can they, you know, we want them to feel empowered in order to speak up to hiring managers cuz technically hiring managers in most, most instances outran a recruiter. Yeah. So that's the hard part is a recruiter is literally holding them to their job. But I say this a lot is you don't let anyone affect your ability to get your job done. Mm-hmm and that's really important. And so in this incident, when I'm, I'm going back, I'm, I'm thinking back to this recruiter I was talking about who was pitching about their hiring manager, um, what he was just saying. He's like, you know what, now I feel like this person wants to hire someone that's more of like in their level.

Brianna Rooney: So a good example of that is I guess I had a very, very intelligent person. Maybe, you know, let's just say coming from Facebook. So let's just say an a player team. And they're currently, you know, recruiting for a B player team. And this particular hiring manager came from a B player team as well, a players versus B players. A lot of the times B players don't hire a players because they don't wanna be put in their spot. Mm-hmm you know? And so that you have to look at, when you're thinking about hiring managers costing you money, are they willing? And I know you talked about this in another episode, are they willing to take someone that outranks them that is better than them that might, might push them out of their role? You know? Yeah. And, and that's a whole other separate can of worms at and reasons why higher managers can cost them money.

Taylor Bradley: Well, if you're confident, then it won't be right. You know, they'll see it as like, okay, well I'm just finding somebody that can backfill me so I can go on to do other things. Yeah. That's not the, the reality of most of their mentality. I no other organization I've worked at besides this one. Yeah. Really has that. Okay. I wanna surround myself with people that I think are better smarter, gonna make me better. It's definitely a theme to be intimidated by people you hire and even your peers. Yeah. Like it's so it's so competitive.

Brianna Rooney: It is. And it's so sad that, you know, people don't, uh, take that as like motivation. I, now I know we're running a time here, but I can't help myself because Taylor, you know, you, you are my work soulmate here. I remember when I talked to you and I was like, man, she knows a lot. She's gonna teach me a lot. Like, this is cool. Like I'm gonna be outta my comfort zone with this. And I remember when you started being like, all right, I gotta, like, I gotta work out extra this morning. Cause I gotta be in my, a game to, you know, take her into this

Taylor Bradley: Organization. Three zip visits.

Brianna Rooney: three zip visits. Exactly. But yeah. You know what, uh, yeah, there's a lot to be said with hiring manager in general, but you know, the bottom line is to sum it up is you can't let your hiring managers cost you money because in general recruiting costs you money hiring costs you money. And if the bottlenecks are the hiring managers, you're in a lot of trouble.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. And it's, I mean the theme make a decision. Yep. And there's a way to have that conversation to pump up their ego, to get them, to make a decision. Like, you know what you're doing, you're very decisive. You're a founder. You started this company and it's like, you know what your gut's telling you make the decision mm-hmm cause they know that that's who they're gonna pick anyway. Oh, who you you're

Brianna Rooney: Touching on like three episodes again. Woo. You got it. You got it. all right. Uh, again, thank you for watching. Uh, I watching thank you for listening. I'm used to, you know, YouTube here. Uh, but we are going to end with a rope to boss tip from Taylor.

Taylor Bradley: Yeah. So our broke to boss tip of the week is to make networking an extremely important part of your recruiting process. Ah, God, make it important part of your job in general, but especially for recruiters, um, some of the best candidates we find are through different networking groups and associations. We're a part of, and then as you guys have heard we say before, hiring managers can turn into customers, clients, or excuse me, candidates can turn into customers, clients. So, you know, make networking with your candidates, different associations, um, and even referrals, a huge part of your recruiting process. You'll fill a lot of jobs that way.

Brianna Rooney: Awesome. All right. See you guys

Taylor Bradley: Later. Thanks. Y'all Tuesday.